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  • Alurian - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    Think that processor only has 6M of L3:
    http://ark.intel.com/products/52211/Intel-Core-i5-...
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    Fixed, thanks. Reply
  • JKolstad - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    While it's not strictly required by the DisplayPort standard, I'd bet you a nickel that HP's implementation of DisplayPort includes the "DVI compatibility" dual-mode that'll let you use a <$10 cable adapter to connect from DisplayPort to a DVI (or HDMI, for that matter) monitor.

    (Every HP I've seen with DisplayPort so far has supported this option. There's supposed to be a little "DP++" logo when dual-mode is supported, although I can't tell from the picture if it's present or not.)
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    I think the point is that most people would just as soon avoid using the extra adapter -- I know I would. It makes for a clunky connection when you have to go DP -> DVI (or even worse, DP -> DVI -> HDMI). I also like being able to screw in DVI cables when I know the system isn't going anywhere -- I've done support for a company where I got more than a few calls that ended up being a cable that came loose when someone decided to rearrange their desk. Reply
  • MadAd - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    but you know vga and dvi are end of life already, take the pain now, dp is the future

    i just wish manufacturers would hurry the hell up with it, i mean was it too much to ask all these years for a simple digital connector that carried sound?

    Sure its a pita having to restock the connector/patch cable box but thats the price of progress, infact i wish theyd go with miniDP all over, but ppl seem to like huge connectors, same with miniusb.
    Reply
  • JasperJanssen - Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - link

    DP cables aren't screwed, but they have tangs that lock the cable at least as securely in place (until you press the button on the connector). Certainly the DP->DVI adapters in use at my workplace have those, and the DVI cable can screw into the adapter.

    DP is a lot smaller than DVI on the backplate, and DP is cheaper to license. This way the DVI licensing cost gets passed off to the adapter, and people who don't use it (because they're still razzinfrassin using VGA monitors exclusively) don't pay it.
    Reply
  • biostud - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    Not that detailed about the sound emission in the review.

    With a 5450 could it be a very good HTPC?
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    Dustin's SPL meter can't accurately measure under 40 dB I believe, making it useless for many systems unfortunately. He also lives in an area with quite a bit of traffic, which can make it doubly hard to get meaningful noise measurements. (And no, he doesn't have an anechoic chamber -- neither do I nor most of the other reviewers here.) I'll see if I can get him to post a noise level for full load, or at least a bit more detail, but at least for the base design it's going to be very nearly silent at idle and probably not much louder under load. Reply
  • jdonnelly81 - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    I had a similar thought. Though the form factor is appropriate, I think the connectivity in audio and video limit it's practicality. Reply
  • Belard - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    So... its basically a notebook computer without the notebook... er screen and keyboard. Reply
  • LoneWolf15 - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    In a mass-deployment market, "basically" that's a great solution.

    It takes up very little desk space, but can be set up so it won't walk away. Great option for K-12 education, or a secretary who needs all the room on his/her desk that can be had.

    For the right price, I'd pick up a few dozen of these in Core i3 format for a basic computer lab, where they'd be perfect for the job.
    Reply
  • Belard - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    I know.. and understand. Overall, I agree with the review of this HP computer.

    I would have gone for 2 USB in the front and at least 1 USB 3.0 in the back and of course, DVI should have been standard.... instead of VGA. VGA adapters are cheap.
    Reply
  • JasperJanssen - Wednesday, October 12, 2011 - link

    Business computers don't need USB 3. They barely need USB2 -- most businesses don't allow random USB devices beyond HID to be connected. Reply
  • praeses - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    These got nixed from my list because of the external power supply. Not only are they trickier from a cable management perspective but they also are more vulnerable to being disconnected and damaged.

    For some its not so much of an issue.
    Reply
  • Adul - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    We just deployed a few hundred of these desktops for a customer of ours. The small form factor really helps out in the tight spaces many of these systems go in hallways. And the ton of USB ports is good to have with some setups having a lot of USB devices attached to them. Reply
  • MadAd - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    agreed, ive been into car computing as well as running several light load home servers, this is a lovely little machine for so many tasks that a laptop cant quite handle but you wouldnt want to power a whole ATX box to do, plus bridges that ITX format space that no one has really managed to claim as their own just yet.

    What with graphics moving on die over the next few generations, all it needs is a push into this space now by companies like HP and I can see stacked power hungry ATX boxes becoming less attractive
    Reply
  • Jaguar36 - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    A Mac mini just seems like a better all around option, less power, no external power brick, for this usage case its going to be just as fast. And far higher build quality. Reply
  • Nihility - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    You want to go from:
    4 cores @ 2.7 (turbo to 3.7) with 4 GB of RAM and a 3-year warranty
    to
    2 cores @ 2.3 with 2GB of RAM with a 1-year warranty?

    And 4 less USB 2.0 ports (for what they'e worth)
    Reply
  • Jaguar36 - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    You're comparing the base $600 Mac mini to the $917 review configuration.
    It doesn't matter though, as performance in this application is pretty much irrelevant, nobody using this PC is going to notice an extra 2 cores.
    Reply
  • Nihility - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    Huge oversight on my part.
    Really only the warranty is a big difference in that case.
    Reply
  • pandemicide - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    You are also forgetting a lot of businesses use Windows. Adding the cost of a windows licence to the mac mini plus the complications of setting up a OSX/Windows environment and getting techs that know both. Reply
  • JarredWalton - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    Nihility, it's not a $917 configuration, unless you're going to just go straight to HP and give them whatever they ask. The exact same system configuration is available elsewhere for $770:
    http://www.costcentral.com/proddetail/HP_Compaq_El...

    So twice the processing power, more USB ports, twice the RAM, and three times the warranty (with onsite service). The best price I can find for the base Mac Mini is around $570 online. You can get an upgraded unit with 6630M graphics and a faster (but still dual-core) CPU, with 4GB RAM for $760. Still one-year warranty, though.
    http://www.ecost.com/p/6842243?CAWELAID=944624666

    And let's not forget serviceability. Anyone here ever tried opening a Mac Mini for servicing? It's not a trivial affair, and once inside the layout isn't ideal either. Long-term, I'd also be a lot more skeptical of the Mac Mini's ability to stay cool if you're running a more intense load, which leads to component failures and downtime.

    Given the choice, I'd say anyone going with Mac Mini in a large deployment instead of something like this HP 8200 Ultra-Slim is worried to much about looking cool and being "hip" than they are with reliability, service, and support.
    Reply
  • bgnoz - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    As a Mac mini user for years, I'd venture to say you haven't used one. The latest versions put this HP kludge to shame... they're wonderfully designed, fast, cool, low-power, and not at all difficult to service. Stupid simple for RAM, and not that bad for drives for anyone with build experience.

    I'm not hip or cool... the latest i7 mini is a great machine, and has replaced my towers (Mac, PC, and Hackintosh) for all but the heaviest video work. I'd love to see how they stack up against this HP parts bin machine.
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    How exactly does a Mac Mini "put this to shame"? It's a bit smaller, perhaps, but what else does it do better? Sure, the 6630M is an okay GPU, but most businesses don't care one way or the other because HD 2000 or HD 3000 is more than sufficient. Heck, I worked at a large company that had thousands of PCs across dozens of locations (I supported about 200 at my particular location), and they would have been happy to stick with older IGP hardware just to reduce the potential gaming capability -- people were periodically caught playing 6+ year old games, because even GMA 900 was fast enough to run stuff like Half-Life!

    So again, what does Mac Mini do better? It doesn't support higher spec CPUs like quad-core offerings. It doesn't come with an onsite 3-year warranty. It runs slower for the same price (because of a slower CPU and less RAM). HDD performance is probably a wash. Oh, and you need to either run OS X (95% or more of businesses don't), or you have to do Bootcamp. Either way, you're generally stuck going through Apple for Windows drivers, right? None of that would be good for a business PC.
    Reply
  • ciparis - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    Playing devil's advocate here...

    The one they call a server model is $999, and comes with a quad-core CPU, if the workload demands it. Business discounts are available.

    Also, even if you're going to discount the GPU for whatever reason (which is becoming more and more relevant in day to day use) you have to recognize there is a desirable balance between GPU and CPU performance in a SFF design; the mini isn't a gamer, either, but it's a well-balanced design even with a dual core CPU, giving you very good general desktop performance with current OS's.

    Re: Boot Camp: these are standard PC components, and while you can get a driver bundle from Apple (just like with HP) you can also source your drivers however you like (preferably from the component manufacturer).

    Anyway, you probably wouldn't have had people kvetching about it if you'd at least mentioned the mini in passing, since it's such a similar concept, except much smaller and generally extremely well-executed (look at Anand's review, for example).
    Reply
  • JarredWalton - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    For a home user, the GPU in the Mac Mini is a definite plus (assuming you get the model that includes the GPU). For a business, like I said it really doesn't matter to 99% of the business owners -- unless you want your employees playing more games? HD 2000 is already "too fast" in terms of power for a lot of businesses to be happy, so now they have to worry about locking the PCs down tighter. It's not a big issue for large companies with IT departments, but for the smaller outfits I'd be curious to see how much time gets wasted playing games. Then again, Solitaire, Minesweeper, Flash games, etc. are all sucking down productivity.

    Since you mention the $999 server version, that actually doesn't have the GPU, though it does have HD 3000 graphics. As a home user, I'd say the middle-of-the-road model is the best option, providing a decent balance. For a business, again, I don't see any (good) reason someone would go for the Mac Mini over a business class ultra-slim desktop. Okay, that's not entirely true: two things the Mac Mini has that this doesn't are native HDMI, and ThunderBolt, and the built-in power supply might also be preferable in some circles. Not sure if the Mac PSU is as energy efficient, though.
    Reply
  • owan - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    In what usage case that this PC targets is a mac mini going to be better? If you tried to suggest deploying mac minis in an enterprise setting you'd get laughed out of the building. "far higher build quality" isn't really true either. its got a shiny outer case, but this HP is a well designed piece of enterprise hardware. Reply
  • LoneWolf15 - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    I agree.

    It's not even the question of being laughed out of the building. It's that Apple, in the past decade, made modest inroads into enterprise markets --and then in the past 24 months, has deliberately burned every bridge they built.

    With that kind of behavior, I wouldn't touch them in the enterprise. They're fine one-off machines that are miserable in large-scale environments.
    Reply
  • Pessimism - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    Apple Troll is trolling.

    Provide one shred of proof of your claim of "far higher build quality". They probably both came out of the same plant at Foxconn.
    Reply
  • Peroxyde - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    I notice that modern computers use less and less the DVD player. In business scenarios, the system admin can always arrange so that people can get around without a DVD drive. Reply
  • kritschg - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    My company looked at both the 8200 and the 6005 and went with the 6005 with an ATHLON II X4 610E and a 64GB SSD. We have 1200+ call center PCs that are on 24x7x365.

    Average power draw was around 51W full load, 21 Idle. We also looked at Dell and they were 65/53 load/idle for their smallest enterprise desktop.

    Another huge benefit is the dual fan design. The system will run under full load with only one fan, temp goes up 5 degrees. External power supply is also helpful, 3 minute replacement.

    When a thin client won’t work add an SSD and a low power CPU and this is the ultimate call center PC.

    Don't forget the cable lock, these little guys will grow legs if they're not locked down.
    Reply
  • albiglan - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    So.. the power supply is external. Not that I don't know what that looks like :-) But a pict showing relative dimensions would be a lovely addition. Nice review of an interesting piece of HW. Reply
  • Shaocaholica - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    I like the slim Optiplex better. About the same size but has 4 dimm slots and full size PCIe graphics. Reply
  • Blaze-Senpai - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    If they make these available to consumers directly I wouldn't mind too much. That onsite warranty would make a lot of people I know happy. Unless people actually want super flashy looking mess still :P Reply
  • etamin - Thursday, September 29, 2011 - link

    Just a suggestion. In the future, do you mind putting up a photo of the box next to some kind of reference object like a coke can? When I read "Get a load of that" I was a bit lost until I saw the optical drive as a reference (but it is still hard to estimate the depth of the box). Would also like to see a photo of the AC adapter too in this case. Other than that, nicely done. Reply
  • Pessimism - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    Seconded. A pop can for reference would be great for future photos as well as a shot of all associated bricks and dongles. Reply
  • ally003 - Friday, September 30, 2011 - link

    We have hundreds of the previous 8000 USD machines, and they are ideal. Real world pricing is different from RRP, we are being offered the 8200 with 4GB and i5 for £345 with a 3 year warranty direct from HP on our contract. I can't see that being topped, and no way can I see an Apple coming close for specification, quality or support for £345. A company like Apple won't give a shit about what your needs or requirements are, it's the Apple way or the highway and that is why they have utterly failed in enterprise and will continue to do so.

    Lack of USB 3.0 is a non-issue for their intended market. The USB is only ever likely to be used for mice, keyboards, the odd memory stick or scanner/printer. They have lots of options including the quick release bracket that makes them mountable on any surface or even on the back of a screen.

    When you are deploying thousands of machines for basic office tasks, this is exactly what you want, end of story.
    Reply
  • ultrabay - Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - link

    the first time I read that, I read "$8000 machines were ideal"

    whelp.
    Reply
  • DanaG - Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - link

    Yeah, that should be "USDT". Makes it clearer, (though it essentially says "DeskTop" with a capital 'T'). Reply
  • pervisanathema - Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - link

    This used to be a site for the PC geeks. Now it has been reduced to reviewing OEM PCs that their old target audience would sneer at. :( Reply

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