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  • RollingCamel - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Just want to say TEAM17 make a decent touch-based Worms 2D and it'll sell like hot cakes. No need for fancy graphics just the old school 2D of Armageddon and World Party... Reply
  • nerd1 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Too bad it took so long for this not-quite-long review....

    Personally I really hate any >10" tablet without inking capability, so it is actually great now OEMs are making tablets with active digitizers. I'd like to see the reviews for Thinkpad tablet 2 and Dell latitude 10 too.
    Reply
  • VivekGowri - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Yeah, that was my bad, it got caught behind some other stuff and has spent a long time sitting at the 90% completion state. Will be more timely in future. Reply
  • hughtwg - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    I had a Thinkpad Tablet 2. In general Windows 8 or more specifically the Modern UI has very poor pen support. You can't use the pen to move around the UI like you would use your finger. You have to use the pen to activate the scroll bars. Unfortunately the TPT2 has very poor pen calibraition particularly along the edges of the screen. This makes using the scroll bars in the Modern UI a real pain in the butt. This also holds true for trying to hit the close or resize button on any maximized windows in the desktop. These issues and the lack of a good dock/keyboard are why I sold my TPT2 and replaced with an an Envy X2. Reply
  • nerd1 - Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - link

    The main use for pen is inking - I cannot understand the LACK of active pen makes Envy X2 any better device. Reply
  • hughtwg - Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - link

    For me the main use of a pen is not having to touch the screen. I use the pen on my Note II 99% of the time and I never ink. While I would prefer a device that supported a pen the difficulty of navigating the Modern UI with a pen made it mostly useless to me.

    What makes the X2 a better device then the TPT2 is the keyboard , battery life, ports, and larger screen. For me anyway. YMMV.
    Reply
  • I am as mad as hell - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    1366x768... that's all I needed to read. Reply
  • VivekGowri - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    You're not going to see higher than that on an Atom-based tablet, nor any of the RT slates. Disappointing reality, but I don't think Clover Trail would offer a satisfactory experience at 1080p anyways - maybe CT+? Reply
  • Snotling - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Do the test, plug in an old Atom netbook in a 1080p display... for everything except 3D games or HD video, it will be fine (and I'm talking OLD single core Atom) New Atoms are far more capable, especially for HD video. Reply
  • jeffkibuule - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    My guess is battery life suffers running at 1080p resolution. Reply
  • Snotling - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    I don't know... what's the battery life on a Samsung GS4? Reply
  • Snotling - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    On a 11.6" display... Samsung! They have more pixels on their 5" smartphones.(GS4) Reply
  • MrSpadge - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Yeah, at that resolution and size you don't even have to fiddle with font sizing to read stuff. How dare they offer this! Reply
  • powerarmour - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    That is definitely a competitive problem, I saw the screen on a Nexus 10 the other day... Wow! Reply
  • ab_aditya - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    A small correction - the iPad storage now goes up to 128 GB Reply
  • VivekGowri - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Thanks for catching that - copied out of an old table and missed to update. Fixed. Reply
  • augustofretes - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Will you review the Chromebook Pixel? It looks beautiful. And for a Linux user as myself it seems like a perfect device. Reply
  • PC Perv - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Nexus 10 is $399+. I don't know why AT keeps getting it wrong while going extra miles to find the cheapest prices for Atom-based tablets.

    And while this may be somewhat of a moot point, Nexus 10 drives 2560x1600 while these Atom tablets are 1366x768, and they use similar sized batteries. Considering that screen time is probably responsible for 80~90% of battery life of these mobile devices, don't you think a bit more explanation is warranted in your battery tests?
    Reply
  • evonitzer - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Indeed. I clicked on the link provided in the price comparison and it took me to Amazon where it is priced as indicated. Buy it directly from Google! Their price is always at $399 for the 16 GB version.

    I'm not sure Microsoft deserves the blame you assign them for their naming scheme. Windows Surface with RT and Windows Surface with Windows 8 Pro are names that exactly describe what they are. Once you get the distinction between RT and 8 Pro, it's very straightforward. It's better that they don't try to come up with a catchy name that rolls off the tongue but instead name their products exactly as they are. If Samsung followed the Microsoft example, they would call them Samsung Ativ 10.1 Windows RT and Samsung Ativ 11.6 Windows 8 Pro. Hideous names yes, but very clear.
    Reply
  • VivekGowri - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    That's odd, I didn't realize it said $462+, it should definitely be $399 on the Nexus 10. Fixed. Reply
  • Krysto - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Why do Clover Trail devices need to be "revisited" every couple of months? Does Intel need Anandtech to do their PR for them? Reply
  • BrokenCrayons - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Though the internal hardware and performance expectations aren't going to change until there are improvements made to the silicon, the hardware package in which it resides that includes the case, screen, interface options, and battery along with other odds and ends make devices themselves worth a look. Samsung, in this case, is different with respect to build quality that is something of a shortcoming.

    That aside, Clover Trail is pretty uninteresting as a platform outside of putting it in the perspective of battery life. Priced at over $700, I don't personally see the appeal of what is, in essence, a netbook that costs over double the price when compared to budget-friendly systems of only a few years ago. There's just not enough benefit to offset the cost increase over a bargin bin AMD C-60 or last-gen Atom netbook for which I can simply carry an additional battery. if I want endurance as I'd be the sort to leave the keyboard dock forever attached and rarely bother to touch the screen.
    Reply
  • Pirks - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Why are you lying about Clover Trail tablet prices being over $700 when in fact they start at $479?

    See this as a proof: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... and this too: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

    Are you a Google and/or Apple fanatic by any chance? Just curious ;)
    Reply
  • BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    From the first page of the article:

    "Clover Trail meant good battery life and x86 compatibility, the inclusion of Wacom active digitizers were exciting, and the 11.6” PLS/S-IPS displays seemed promising. The two are very comparable devices, though the ASUS is priced higher at $799, and doesn’t include the laptop dock anymore (it did at launch.) That gives the Samsung a pretty sizable price advantage, as $749 is only about $50 more than the 64GB Windows RT tablets when the keyboard accessory cost is included—more than worth it given the disparity in features and capability."
    Reply
  • Death666Angel - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    You realize that you are talking about all Clover Trail tablets, while Vivek just talks about 2 very specific, premium products? If you don't need a keyboard dock and an active digitizer, you can get Clover Trail tablets much cheaper. And in turn, if you need a keyboard dock and especially an active digitizer, comparing that price with old netbooks is useless, as they are useless for that specific need. Reply
  • BrokenCrayons - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    The scope of my original post and response do not encompass, as you imply, "all Clover Trail tablets" outside of considerations of overall platform performance. The majority of the discourse concerns the Samsung tablet in specific and its various shortcomings relative to the MSRP under consideration of the benefits offered in exchange for the costs.

    With regards to my needs for a various features such as an active digitizer, I've already mentioned that previously. "I'd be the sort to leave the keyboard dock forever attached and rarely bother to touch the screen." In light of my own usage model and requirements, the price of the Samsung isn't justified or reasonable when one can acquire similar performance from low cost hardware available at office supply stores.

    http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/592409/Acer-...

    Understandably, your personal preferences and desires for a computing platform might be different. That's perfectly reasonable, but the mold which suits your needs may not be universally applied to others.
    Reply
  • Death666Angel - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Then you should amend that sentence:
    "That aside, Clover Trail is pretty uninteresting as a platform outside of putting it in the perspective of battery life. Priced at over $700, I don't personally see the appeal of what is, in essence, a netbook that costs over double the price when compared to budget-friendly systems of only a few years ago."
    As you make no effort to distinguish between different CT platforms. And when you get called out for it, you quote the article which just mentions 2 examples.
    Reply
  • duploxxx - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    typical OEM behavior, go with the flow i.s.o. design to differentiate. There has always been a netbook atom killer called Brazos, same for the tablet space it exists, http://www.anandtech.com/show/6672/vizio-tablet-pc... no slugish gui or impossible 3d like on the clovers, i had many tabs in house for testing, just makes the all day experience horrible. from an smooth workable gui experience (swiping between screens, switching applications) on tablets: IOS > ANDROID = AMD Soc >>>>> Clover this is how you can rate the experience. Reply
  • nerd1 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    I don't care about UI experience, I do care about the active digitizer (for inking) and battery life. Reply
  • DanNeely - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    The part of the Asus device chaos that's annoying me the most is that from what I can tell from their webpage; their 10" atom model is only available with a wireless keyboard and a cover that can be folded up to let the two imitate a laptop on a table while the winRT model has an actual keyboard dock with the extended battery and ability to use like a laptop even if a perfectly flat surface isn't available. The atom tablet and keydock would otherwise match what I am looking for almost perfectly. Reply
  • jtsmall - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Then look at the HP Envy X2 here http://bit.ly/114Mcnb and here http://zd.net/114NqPg
    This dockable Win 8 Atom Z2760 tablet sounds like what you're asking for.
    Reply
  • DanNeely - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    The Envy's currently at the top of my candidate list due to price; but it's a big bigger than I really want. I can stuff a 6.5" laptop into the pockets of holding in a few of my pairs of pants which, while a bit awkward, is less of a hassle than either carrying it loose or wearing a backpack for a single item. The 7.5" tall form factor of the Envy (and every other atom tablet/laptop combo) is too big to fit. Reply
  • nerd1 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Envy x2 is almost perfect EXCEPT FOR the (current) lack of active digitizer solution. They said they will have some digitizer (Atmel?) but no one has confirmed that it actually works yet. Reply
  • DanNeely - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    What's the current status of Clovertrail drivers? A number of initial reviews mentioned them still being a bit flaky; if those problems have been sorted out is something I was really hoping to see on a review dated a few months after launch. Reply
  • powerarmour - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Intel doesn't want anyone to talk about them, it's their massive Achilles heel on their PowerVR based chipsets, they are absolutely dreadful for anything 3D related, even 2D is pretty badly borked... :P Reply
  • Death666Angel - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Thanks for the review!
    I have the XE700T1C and am looking forward to your review of it. I had to decide between spending 850€ for good battery life but mediocre performance (even lower than the i3-330UM Acer laptop it should replace) or spending 1300€ for something that has enough battery life and all the performance I can expect and need in a portable machine. :D I expect that Temash/Kabini will offer more of a balance, but those are vapoware as of now. :(
    I agree that the dock could use a battery, really a shame they didn't include it. However, I do like the flaps on the ports. Gives it a cleaner look than having the stuff open. What would be your alternative to the flaps? :) I wouldn't mind them being slider mechanisms. But I take the flaps over open ports any day.
    On my XE700T1C, I had no trouble peeling off the stickers, so I don't think that is a big point. There is also nothing of importance printed onto it.
    You could do more to elaborate on the typing experience with the dock and the stylus experience.
    Reply
  • Death666Angel - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Forgot something. You say 10.1" is the nicer form factor. I disagree. 10.1" is fine if all you do is run Metro apps or desktop apps in full screen. But running 2 programs side by side is really terrible for me with 10.1" screens. The 11.6" screen of my XE700T1C has the perfect size to start running 2 apps side by side. The larger size also makes taking notes easier for me. I don't think one size fits everyone, so I'm not trying to tell everyone to use 11.6". But there are legitimate reasons to go to the bigger screen. The size difference is easily offset by the pros for me.
    And if people don't need the Wacom digitizer, they should think about the W700 from Acer. It is super cheap and has the best battery of any Core tablet. It doesn't offer a keyboard dock though (only a stand and a bluetooth keyboard). But the performance is ridiculous when compared to Atom powered stuff and it still usually offers 7+ hours of battery life. If people want a try with the higher performing Windows tablets they should look for the Samsung predecessor of the XE700T1C, the XE700T1A (Series 7 Slate) which comes in Celeron and Core i5 2nd gen flavors and a lower resolution screen without the keyboard dock but with a desktop dock and a bluetooth keyboard with an active digitizer. :) It costs as much as most Atom powered tablets with a few extras here cost.
    Reply
  • powerarmour - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Shame about the absolutely dire Clover Trail graphics drivers though... Reply
  • beginner99 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    The Mozilla Kraken Benchmark must contain an error. The Razr i beats clovertrail by a huge margin while obviously being much slower (medfield). Something is not right in that benchmark. Reply
  • A.J. - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    That's because Razr i using Chrome-like browser in Android.
    You can easily get ~12000ms in Kraken using Chrome25 in the z2760 platform.
    Reply
  • beginner99 - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Suspected that but makes the whole benchmark even more flawed it is in the first place. It doesn't even mention the browser used, at least not easily visible. I assume it was IE then considering the crappy performance. Reply
  • Kidster3001 - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Kraken ( and Sunspider ) are not CPU or even system benchmarks. They are Browser benchmarks only. Clovertrail and Clovertrial+ scale perfectly with frequency as compared to Medfield when they use the same browser. Reply
  • kyuu - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Hope a review of the Vizio Tablet PC with the AMD C-60 is incoming soon! Reply
  • kyuu - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Er, Z-60. Reply
  • nikon133 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    What about Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet 2? I think proper docking station option (with LAN, external screen and a few USB ports) makes it really interesting among Clover Trail tablets, but it is not being mentioned here at all. Is it available in US? Reply
  • hughtwg - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Yes, it's available in the US. Mine is on Ebay at the moment.

    I think docking the tablet directly to a keyboard like the Ativ, or Envy X2 is much more practical than a dock like that provided by the TPT2 since the keboards have essentially the same ports as the non mobile dock for the TPT2. I bought the TPT2 for the stylus support but found it rather disappointing due to a combination Windows 8 and Lenovo issues.
    Reply
  • sprockkets - Monday, March 18, 2013 - link

    Still no Nexus 10 review... Reply
  • A.J. - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Pls try using the same Google Chrome/MS IE10 in Octane or Kraken javascript benchmark test!
    It's totally ridiculous to have the javascript benchmark score with different browsers. Am I looking at a browser test?

    with Chrome25:
    I got 2580 on Octane bench,
    about ~900ms in Sunspider,
    and ~12000ms in Mozilla Kraken.

    Intel Clover Trail Atom is way better than old cortexA9! Even close to cortexA15 in some cases.
    And with the remarkable 1.7W TDP, it totally smashes the A15 in efficiency!

    Curious to see 22nm BayTrail quad-core Atom vs Tegra4.
    Reply
  • paulbram - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Although in general I agree it is not fair to compare different browsers, I think you also need to remember that Chrome on a Windows 8 CT chip is really not NEARLY as good as IE10 is. In fact, I've been incredibly impressed with IE10 perf on mine. So, sure you could run Chrome if you want to see poor benchmark results, but why not give the machine the best chance at success? Reply
  • Kidster3001 - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Javascript benchmarks are "Browser" benchmarks, not CPU benchmarks. They are completely dependent on the javascript engine used in the browser. Reply
  • paulbram - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    You REALLY need to check out the HP Envy X2. I just picked up this thing from Staples for $525. It includes the keyboard dock with a second battery in it. In my opinion, it is the best of the convertibles AND it is the cheapest!!!

    The build quality in particular is really quite amazing. It feels like a MacBook air with a detachable screen.
    Reply
  • hughtwg - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    I agree. While I much prefer using a stylus than getting greasy fingerprints all over my screen the poor stylus support in Windows 8 make using a stylus less than ideal. Other than my touchpad not registering multi-touch gestures when waking from sleep the X2 has been great. Hopefully HP will fix the touch pad soon. Reply
  • nerd1 - Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - link

    Actually HP initially claimed their tablet supports active digitizer (maybe atmel) but so far no one confirmed than. That's was a major dealbreaker for me. Reply
  • new-paradigm - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    The Asus Vivotab also has a wacom digitiser built in. Not sure why anyone would choose the plasticky build of the Samsung to be honest. Reply
  • new-paradigm - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    http://www.asus.com/vivo/en/vivoTab.htm Reply
  • new-paradigm - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Also, I think you may be getting your vivotabs confused. The vivotab has a wacom digitiser and the second battery in the keyboard dock, the vivotab smart has neither.

    Would also have liked a comment on the usability of the tablet whilst docked, as I found from looking at them in the shops that the heavy weight of the tablet causes them to fall over backwards when prodding at the screen whilst it is being used docked on a desk or table.
    Reply
  • paulbram - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    Not sure about the others, but I can say that I use my HP Envy X2 on my lap all the time and it doesn't seem to be too top heavy. They actually prevent the screen from going back too far, likely to prevent this problem. Reply
  • nordicpc - Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - link

    I love my Ativ. I got one as soon as I could, Staples had them without the keyboard dock back when Win 8 launched. It's been a very solid tablet with way more functionality and performance than I could have ever hoped for. I used a Transformer 2 before, and this is no question better. The only thing that this review missed was the occasional lockups that the OS experiences while in sleep. You have to do a hard shutdown sometimes when the system has been offline for a while. I don't know if he didn't experience it, or if he was asked by Samsung to not note it because they have a fix coming soon, but it seems to be an issue with both my Ativ and my employee's Asus Smart. Seriously though, the Ativ Smart has totally replaced my AMD-based Asus Eee-PC, and I'm incredibly happy with it. Faster than an AMD Athlon X2 with all-day battery life and a very good (although low-res) screen. Reply
  • rburnham - Thursday, March 21, 2013 - link

    This is the tablet I went with. I had a similar Acer tablet initially, but that unit had a problem where it would go into sleep mode and not come out of it without a reset. I returned it and got the Samsung unit and I have been pleased with it. It's a little too big for one-handed use, but other than that it does what I want. The Atom processor really makes a case for Windows RT not being needed at all. Space be a little tight, but with a micro SD card, I can hold all the data I need on the go. Definitely an option worth considering. Reply
  • Amit kumar - Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - link

    It's really an enjoyable phone with lots of features. I got all statistics about this phone this site as well. http://www.gadtecho.com/ Reply

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