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  • Crono - Thursday, October 24, 2013 - link

    Once you go Black... you realize that Nokia has done a good job with their software as well as their hardware, and has provided an overall polished experience on their phones and now tablets. Also, you don't go back. :D Reply
  • FwFred - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Would have loved to see 8.1 x86 rather than RT. Microsoft is already making a good (for RT) tablet. I think a top tier HW maker like Nokia would clean up with a Z3770. Reply
  • Laxaa - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I'm guessing this was to far into development to switch over to x86. I'm also guessing development started a bit before the MS deal. But a Bay Trail version would have been nice. Reply
  • Visual - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    There will be plenty of Bay Trail options from other brands, while RT is nowhere to be seen. So I'm glad they are adding competition where there was none.
    You call MS's RT good, but it is not good at least in terms of pricing. Even less so in terms of accessory pricing. There needs to be a RT option that is priced below the Bay Trail alternatives. Unfortunately now that Nokia is MS's bitch, I doubt their pricing will differ...
    Reply
  • crispbp04 - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I have a surface 2 and surface 2 pro on my desk right now. RT has a bright future.

    RT 8.1 provides the most synonymous experience to the existing Lumia line, and it is not subject to the same risks as full windows 8.1

    8.1 bridges the gap and makes RT the perfect device for *most* consumers. Full Office with outlook, fully "managed" with no exposure risk to malware, Performance that is surprisingly great (given that snapdragon 800 will be on par with Tegra 4) and the likely future of a fully portable app ecosystem from tablet=>pc=>console=>phone
    Reply
  • BMNify - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Very late article and that too a small one from Anandtech whereas the Apple event got slavish coverage with many articles and thorough analysis.

    Had to follow the news about this launch on Engadget and WPcentral which provided good coverage including hands-on videos.
    Reply
  • Deelron - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Of course the Apple event had more coverage, Anandtech was actually invited to it, they were not invited to the Nokia one (as And noted in the comments of the Apple event). Naturally actually going to an event is going to generate more content before any other outside considerations. Reply
  • BMNify - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Even without attending the event they could have posted few articles on the products announced like other websites, besides Anandtech has not reviewed Nokia phones in the past eventhough they receive the review samples. The main problem is that the senior smartphone editor of Anandtech that is Brian is a PROUD windows hater.

    Brian constantly mocks windows phone on twitter and podcasts. He did not review the Lumia 920 even after receiving the review sample, the same thing is happening with Lumia 1020 whereas the other devices like iphones and many Android devices get in-depth coverage.

    Brian has himself admitted that he has not used Surface devices and even then he was sent to cover Surface 2 events, why can't Anandtech give objective reviews of the Windows ecosystem? There are other people in the team like Vivek and Ganesh, give them chance to write reviews of the windows phone devices as they seem quite objective in their writing and are not biased enough to constantly mock, trash the third ecosystem and put the review samples to some good use.
    Reply
  • Laxaa - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I think maybe hater is a strong word, but the Windows coverage has been severely lacking from AT lately.

    I do think Windows Phone has many problems and is behind it's competitors in some areas, but Nokia does many things right when it comes to it's phones. Both directional stereo sound/rich recording and RAW(DNG) support are a big deal to me.
    Reply
  • Doh! - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I'm sure once Windows phone become a significant player in the market, they will receive the same treatment as the other major competitors. But Windows phone barely has a 3% market share in the industry. Why can't you just read the reviews at sites more dedicated for Windows phones? Reply
  • Laxaa - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Because Anandtech has good reviews and I would like to see them review a Windows Phone in the same fashion. Reply
  • whatsa - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I'm sorry but thats a bit silly...
    AT review all types of HW even before anyone knows its market impact.
    Thats the purpose of a review so people have another opinion before purchase.

    I'm sure they will review the Jolla phone too
    So really the new emerging tech is a far better review
    than a stagnant iterative one.
    Reply
  • sorten - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Doh!, I assume you're referring to the US market share. WP has almost 9% of the EU market and is doing quite well in China, South America and other parts of the world. If it doesn't already, it will soon have the same worldwide market share as Apple has for its desktop PCs.

    I must admit I was shocked that AT didn't even mention the Nokia World news in the pipeline. How can you announce such trivial news as new graphics card drivers and not announce a new tablet and multiple new phones from Nokia? Oh well.
    Reply
  • Flunk - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Then why do sites review Macs? Blackberries? Being a niche market doesn't make the product unworthy of review. Reply
  • cheshirster - Friday, November 01, 2013 - link

    Chrome OS sits well under 1%.
    There are more people using WP, than Mac OS users in total.
    Nexus 4 sales in a year are only half of Lumia 520 sales in 6 months.
    WP had 4.1% globally in Q3 13.
    Reply
  • XP-E - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Is it any wonder they weren't invited? Nokia's sent Brian at least three Windows Phone 8 devices (Lumia 920, 925 and 1020) and he hasn't reviewed any of them. Reply
  • Crono - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    That is a bit disappointing, though I think some of the previews here on AnandTech are equivalent to full reviews elsewhere.

    They really need to hire one or two people more to the mobile staff here, it's pretty clear that unless they can clone Brian, they are going to be backlogged or potentially have to cut a lot of review out which would be a shame.
    Reply
  • Braumin - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Yes it's been actually kind of terrible to see Brian receive the WP8 phones from Nokia, and then just outright dismiss them. I mean, that's not how a professional reviewer should do things. If the devices have faults - point them out in the review.

    I read the HTC One review from Brian and it went ON AND ON about the supposedly amazing camera, which has turned out to be a piece of junk in the real world. However even Brian is using the Lumia 1020 as his benchmark smartphone camera in reviews for other phones, but he can't even take the time to write a piece even just about the camera.

    Honestly I think Brian is a smart guy, but the impartiality of Anandtech has certainly been removed from Anandtech in the last couple of years. Unfortunately I find myself going to other tech sites for info now because Anandtech glosses over Windows so much, and it's important to me still.

    The Windows 8.1 update is another great example. A pipeline story about it as if it's just a service pack. I can't wait to read the 20 page review of Mavericks.
    Reply
  • Kristian Vättö - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I'd like to clarify some points here. Our editor team has gotten smaller in the recent months since two of our editors have left. Vivek had to quit since he now works as an engineer at Razer, which is pretty cool if you ask me. Jason Inofuentes now works for Ars Technica and is hence no longer a part of our team. Dustin is also working for Corsair now as a technical marketing specialist and while he continues to be a part of AnandTech, I'm pretty sure his time will be more limited.

    I of course can't speak with Brian's mouth about Nokia reviews but in general we now have fewer people, which also means we're more limited in what we can do. Most of us concentrate on one product group (like I focus on SSDs), so reviewing something else like Windows 8.1 or OS X Mavericks would take a ton of time away from the editor's main focus.
    Reply
  • ananduser - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Good to know...wow...Vivek works for Razer. Definitely cool. That certainly explains the slow pace of things around here. I'm pretty sure you guys are currently busy reviewing the rMBPs and the new ipads along with the latest OSX. Reply
  • VengenceIsMineX - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    That argument would carry more weight if it wasn't obvious from other reviews that Brian spends significant time with the Nokia's to evaluate their cameras since that is a personal interest of his but he can't be bothered to follow through on a full review which is very disrespectful to Nokia, that they are providing hardware to someone who has no intention of reviewing it and that information gets used in reviews of other products but they aren't getting equivalent profile. If you have no intention of reviewing products because of personal preference, be upfront with your readers and manufacturers. Reply
  • Wolfpup - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I love Brian in the podcasts, but yeah, lets see a review. I don't even really know from the podcasts what it is that he's missing from Windows Phone 8 that Android would give him.

    In my case I use iOS for one reason only-better podcast support. Otherwise I'd go with the massively cheaper, but still awesome Nokida Windows Phones. I've gotten Nokia 520s for relatives, and LOVE them. Love the software. No question I'd love these 6" models :-O

    Of the three platforms, Windows Phone has the best Office support, which is somewhat important to me, and seems competent in most everything else. I mean I prefer it no question to Android, and have no issues going back and forth between WP8 and iOS, it's just the worse podcast support everything else has next to iOS/iTunes that keeps me there...
    Reply
  • JoshHo - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Unfortunately, as Deelron said, no one was on-site to cover Nokia World. Reply
  • JoshHo - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I make it a point to avoid making lots of small articles if one, larger article will suffice. Makes things easier. :) Reply
  • Sm0kes - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Anand stated clearly (in the comments section) that they were not invited to Nokia World. As a result, there wasn't the same level of coverage.

    Also, Windows Mobile is a tiny percentage of the overall market. Is anyone surprised this is reflected in their coverage? Calling Brian and Anand "haters" or "biased" is a bit silly.

    For the record, I was life long Nokia user (candy bars through N-series sliders) and the decision to go with Windows made me an iPhone convert. If only they adopted Android......
    Reply
  • Crono - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Windows Mobile is a tiny percentage, but Windows Phone is an increasing percentage worldwide. Even if the percentage is around 5% globally, that's still an impressive raw number of phones. We're talking about tens of millions of handsets, and that number is only going to increase in the near future.

    Nokia didn't need to be just another Android manufacturer, there are plenty of those already.
    Reply
  • Laxaa - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Nokia would probably have been burried as a Android manufacturer.

    The decision to go WP only was controversial, sure, but it at least gives Nokia the chance to create something unique. My next phone will probably be either the successor to the Lumia 1020 or the HTC One(HTC Two, perhaps) Bothe the 1020 and the One have hardware that I really want, like great industrial design and the ability to record distortion free audio. The One's camera is not up to par with my tastes yet, and I do HTC goes the iPhone 5s route on the next one, 8Mpix with slightly larger pixels and OiS

    But going back to your original argument, the Windows Phone marketshare is increasing worldwide. Nokia did sell 8 million Lumias last quarter, and while that might not be iPhone numbers, it's over twice the amount compared to the same quarter in 2012. And if the trend continues in 2014, I think it warrants more attention from sites like AT.
    Reply
  • Braumin - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I think your logic is flawed here. People call them haters because:
    1. Nokia has sent them the last three flagship phones for review
    - None of the phones were ever reviewed and they've been mocked by the main smartphone guy at Anandtech on both the podcasts and twitter
    2. Windows Phone 8 has NEVER even been reviewed on this site
    3. Even Windows 8.1 got a pipeline story about it being a service pack

    Why would Nokia even bother inviting them? First of all, they wouldn't have went, and if they did we'd have gotten nothing out of them.

    Unfortunately everyone has biases but pros need to remove those biases for their jobs.
    Reply
  • superunknown98 - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I agree. Being a Windows phone user, I would love to read in depth reviews of the hardware and software that is applicable to me from a site I trust more than any other. I also understand that any reviewer will have a personal preference for any product, maybe one they personally use, that they will have more knowledge of and updates will be more relevant to them. But that should never preclude proper coverage of other devices. Reply
  • maximumGPU - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Add me to the list of windows phone users fed up with the lack of coverage at anandtech. Reply
  • Myrandex - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    Count me in as well. The HTC 8X seemed to be the only real review here and while it wasn't bad, it does seem to be rather sparse compared to other smart phones that were reviewed here.

    Jason Cook
    Reply
  • B3an - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    I also agree we need more Windows/WP related coverage.

    Theres not many sites that do great detailed coverage like Anandtech does, and i think theres also a big user base opening because a lot of people like us want this coverage, but theres few options for us. A shame AT can't do it. Here in the UK, WP now has around 12% market. Hope AT hire someone new for this stuff.
    Reply
  • heron_kusanagi - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    Agreed. I love AT, but I am a Windows Phone user frustrated by the amazing lack of reviews from Anandtech on Windows Phone ever since the L920 launch. If AT can come up with the indepth review of the A7 and give it so much lavish praise, then I am sure that even with the OS, you can write much about the software experience. Reply
  • Booty - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Add me to the list of those sick of all the iPhone and Android love. There's obviously a bias. If you want to write in-depth reviews of phones in excruciating detail, at least make that the template for all phones you cover. I personally skip most of the crazy detail anyway, but I'd like it to be available if I ever want that level of detail. Reply
  • MrSpadge - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    About the same here. I quickly glance at over new hardware features, and check the summary for key improvements in software. But apart from that it's more like "oh good, not another iWhatever" or another "me too 'droid". Reply
  • SeannyB - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I seem to recall Bryan In a podcast saying that he won't bother reviewing a Windows phone until Microsoft gets serious about their OS. I would like to see an AnandTech review a Windows phone though, even if the whole review just eviscerates the thing. I don't have a good sense of the WP ecosystem etc. as compared to its competitors as of now. Reply
  • Wolfpup - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I don't understand what he's talking about. He seemed to be refering to updates, but Microsoft's updating at least as fast, probably faster than iOS or Android. And that's not even relevant IMO, given Windows sometimes goes years without updates and still remains IMO the best designed OS on Earth (and certainly is at worst competitive). In other words, frequency of updates doesn't necessarily mean anything, though they ARE getting them frequently. Reply
  • MrSpadge - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Agreed - what matters is the result, not the frequency of updates. Reply
  • VengenceIsMineX - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    I regretfully have to concur with the general sentiment being voiced here. I've been an AnandTech reader since the late 90's so I am disappointed that AnandTech has become too biased to be taken as seriously as it thinks it should. Of course Nokia didn't bother to invite you if you can't be bothered to review their products that they send you, some of which are very innovative and worth of your attention, ie the Lumia 1020. Brian's passed the rubicon of preferring a platform for technical reasons into outright bias and Brian's protests to the contrary are simply drowned out by his large volume of sarcastic barbs thrown at Windows Phone and Microsoft in general leaving an unavoidable perception of bias. Anand isn't much better, since his job consists of email, IM word processing, light photography work and posting to websites, all admirably supported by Apple products, he consistently over rates the importance of these features and underrates other platform features and capabilities.

    While I highly respect Brian's energy and technical ability, he's clearly immature and unprofessional. His utter disinterest in the Surface event was quite apparent. Why on earth was he sent when he clearly isn't interested in the product or the platform? Anandtech's competition all managed hands on time and video reviews of that experience the day of the event, Verge, Engadget, Gizmodo, Tom's etc. Does anyone think Brian was actually trying to get hands on time or was he sitting in his seat messing with whatever phone project he was currently working on? I'd love to see a poll on that. Don't get me wrong, Brian is the best Android & ARM platform reviewer bar none, but he clearly should be focusing on that since his passion for that platform outweighs his professionalism. Intelligence doesn't lead to professionalism, if it did SemiAccurate would be much more worthwhile than it is.

    If this keeps up into 2014, I'll regretfully be dropping Anandtech from my podcasts and weekly must read list because if it's just going to be a more technical spin factory like the Verge, then it no longer merits the lofty place it has had in my sources of information.
    Reply
  • Myrandex - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    Yea long time reader here too, since old Socket 7 chipset motherboard reviews and everything :) Reply
  • Laxaa - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    I agree.

    It's been a year now since Windows Phone 8 launched, and the preview of the HTC 8X is a close as we've gotten to a lenghty article about the devices and the system. I really hope AT and Brian takes it's time to at least look at the Lumia 1520. It packs some exciting hardware, and even if they don't agree on the software front(Windows Phone has it's problems for sure), I think it's woth a look.
    Reply
  • ananduser - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Joshua you could have added that the Qualcomm choice amounts to LTE capability. 500$ for an LTE capable tablet is pretty good. The LTE option is at a premium for ipads and Sammy's flagships.

    Another cool info you could have provided was the "assertive" display for the 1520. Definitely a cool tech that basically amounts to individual pixel manipulation to provide maximum readability in bright conditions(not to be mistaken for the basic brightness increase upon sensor detection that all other devices do).
    Reply
  • JoshHo - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Sorry, I thought it was implied when I wrote that the 2520 had a MSM part rather than an APQ part.

    I'm skeptical of assertive display. Dynamic display adjustment tends to reduce display quality, not improve it.
    Reply
  • Belegost - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    Well, I wouldn't expect all readers to know that MSM parts include modems. Also, there are MSM parts existing that do not include LTE support.

    Other point, the 8974 is CAT4 supporting 150Mbps and carrier aggregation (which should become useful in the US in 2014) this is the same features which SS has touted as LTE Advanced in the S4 (though I personally would not.)
    Reply
  • JoshHo - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    Yeah. Thanks for the feedback. I'll add that in now.

    All MSM8974 parts will have cat4 LTE support.
    Reply
  • MrSpadge - Friday, October 25, 2013 - link

    The Lumia 1020 has just shipped and is still very expensive well, they deserve to get some money back for their investment). It's my current favorite if my trusty old Win Mobile 6.1 HTC fails. Yet.. with GDR3 I'd obviously want a Lumia 1020 upgraded with a more modern SOC. It wouldn't have to be a quad core, although the huge images could probably actually make good use of them. Reply
  • Bobs_Your_Uncle - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    I won't reiterate specific observations about WP8/WP8.1, (Win8, Win8.1, Nokia...etc.) that have been well enumerated earlier & have a demonstrably, very legitimate basis. Slighting of WP (to say nothing of outright dismissal) could possibly be understood were it not such a solid &, in a number of ways, clearly superior platform with respect to both OS & hardware.

    WP was undeniably late to the post 2007 smartphone market, despite WM being early in the game. It's far from a perfect ecosystem, but it is evolving relatively quickly & significantly. Any suggestion that MS doesn't take their mobile OS seriously is either misinformed or deliberately petty.

    I read every word of Brian's review of the HTC One & I consider it to be a truly masterful exercise in tech journalism (& expressed such in e-mails sent to Brian & Anand). It's really quite unfortunate that such considerable abilities & insights are focused/applied in such a non-technical/unscientific/uneven fashion. Furthermore, It's even ironic, as market research indicates the perception of Apple is waning among younger consumers; it's becoming viewed as being kinda "Hipster-ish"!

    Count me among those who are quite disappointed in lack of coverage on MS platforms.
    Reply
  • JoshHo - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    Hopefully I'll be able to change that. :) Reply
  • Bobs_Your_Uncle - Saturday, October 26, 2013 - link

    Q: How many hipsters does it take to screw in a light bulb?

    Hipster A: Oh, it's like a really obscure number that can only be arrived at though complex mathematical processes. You probably wouldn't recognize it if I told you.
    Reply
  • Hobot - Sunday, January 05, 2014 - link

    First off, thanks to Josh for a glimpse of a review of a Nokia Wp.
    Second I would also like to say that I've been a long time lurker AT enthusiast. For All the PC's I've built in recent years, I first made a research here. Really love your thorough tech reviews. But the lack of such reviews for the Lumia series by Nokia is a major disappointment. No other site makes such proffessional reviews as you guys. Hope to see a review of 1020 & 1520 soon :)
    Reply

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