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  • Drumsticks - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Wow. That's a surprise announcement, at least to me. These both look like fantastic computers. I have a Pro 4 that is managing just fine, but I'd have some serious urge to pick one up otherwise.
  • nathanddrews - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    That's a serious GPU upgrade! Very appealing for portable gaming/graphics work.

    Why 2GB GPU? 2GB GPU means no Netflix 4K streaming per NVIDIA's odd driver restriction. But Kaby/Coffee IGP will do it. So weird.
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    At a guess probably for power reasons, the extra GDDR5 will burn another watt or two of power and hurt battery life.
  • BucksterMcgee - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    AnandTech has a typo, it's 6GB in the 15 inch's GTX1060
  • nathanddrews - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    That makes a lot more sense.
  • ImSpartacus - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    The 1060 showed 6GB in the video, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the 1050 only had 2GB of VRAM.
  • Engineerd - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    How does that i7-8650U hold up against a i7-7700HQ? I know it’s 15w vs 45 watt, but has a real comparison been done yet? This may be a good alternative to a high spec XPS 15.
  • Destoya - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    As far as I'm aware, the only benchmarks out there right now are for the 8550U. The new 15W Coffee Lake parts don't make up the whole difference to the 45W quad cores, but they're much faster than the older 15W dual cores.
    This benchmark was done in a 13" 2in1 with a fan, so keep that in mind when considering the power profile the chip will have:
    https://www.techspot.com/review/1500-intel-8th-gen...
  • BucksterMcgee - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Shouldn't that read "...or GTX 1060 *6*GB discrete graphics options in the larger 15" version." not 2GB for 15 inch?
  • lilmoe - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    $2.5k starting for the 15" is nothing short of ridiculous.

    Thanks for nothing, internets.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Especially considering the close to no repairability, and the preposterous cost of "official" battery replacement. I'll stick with the yoga 720 thanks.
  • ikjadoon - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Insane. Let's hope this time they can garner a recommendation from Anandtech on first release and "earn" that price tag somewhat.
  • Drumsticks - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    It doesn't seem that insane to me - this is capable of being a Macbook Pro competitor in every sense of the word. At $2400 on the MBP, you only get a Radeon 555 too; that's many, many times weaker than a 6GB GTX 1060. I'd take the Surface Book's tradeoffs over the 15" MBP - it has a lot of advantages. The screen is invaluable and incomparable if you need it, the extra GPU grunt is a big deal, and if their battery estimates are good (they were last year), they should outdo the Macbook Pro by a touch. It's more expensive, but there's value there.
  • Drumsticks - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    I should clarify - I envy these products and I may want one but the 15" Surface Book is too much for me. In that sense, it is insane. In the picture of the overall market, though, especially if you accept Microsoft is targeting Apple, its placement isn't quite as outrageous. If I bought one, I would consider springing for the 13", although I think the entire Surface lineup is compelling.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    It is insane because the price is twice what it should actually cost. It's like selling 5 dollar bills for 10 dollars.
  • Drumsticks - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    I mean, the luxury end of the market, in every market ever, commands luxury prices. Threadripper only costs like a couple hundred to make iirc, and they're selling it for $1000. It costs far more than what it could cost, but it's perfectly acceptable due to market dynamics from both AMD and Intel.

    Some houses cost far more than others despite being comparable in total space etc. because of various luxuries. I think a $100,000 car is far too expensive to ever be reasonable, but people are going to continue making $100,000 cars because there's a segment of people who want $100,00 cars, damn the diminishing returns.

    The Yoga 720 is a nice laptop, and ~$800-1200 is certainly the sweet spot "value" point of the market for premium products, but they can't do everything a Surface Book can, and a Yoga 720 does not have the same level of polish. It's absolutely subject to diminishing returns (again, I'm not buying a $2500 laptop personally), but there will always be a segment of people who are.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    I wouldn't say TR comes at a premium. It costs twice as much as a ryzen with half the cores, even though it is a product a next level of performance. Do not confuse profit margin with price premium.

    I have no problem with this product being overpriced, I am just pointing out it is not worth the money.

    There is a saying in my country, which roughly translates to "the price is as big as the idiocy".

    "but they can't do everything a Surface Book can" - same hardware, same software capabilities. Plus the ability to upgrade and repair. Not only can it do everything the surface can (including the stylus), but it will definitely serve you lounger.

    If you want polish, go dry a turd, put a layer of varnish on it, then polish it. So shiny, so nice. So special.

    You cannot compare the status upgrade you get from owning a 250k (because come on, 100k ain't that much really) car with what you get out of paying 1500$ extra for m$'s lousy brand. The former makes you a big shot, the latter makes you an idiotic wannabe :) That car would be a total chick magnet, whereas chicks only get impressed by tablets in stupid ads made by tablet makers. Finally, such cars are mostly for show, whereas people buy such hardware to actually use it, which is why despite all the hype surface sales aren't booming, and the entire line will probably EOL soon, because most of the fanatical idiots are already shopping crapple. They wouldn't really sell any of those if idiocy was not considered "the norm".
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    In fact, the yoga can do more, because it also has a thunderbolt port.
  • gerz1219 - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Who's selling a better laptop (in terms of specs, build quality, design and overall experience) for half the price?
  • niva - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Yeah, I want a Surface Pro too, but I can't justify the cost... been in this situation since the Surface Pro first came out. I really want one to sketch on, but it's for rich people!
  • Freakie - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    It's priced reasonably for the spot in the market it is going for, it's true. This is going to tempt a LOT of creatives to switch from the MBP to the SB2. A lot of creatives I talk to (a couple dozen) are disappointed with the latest 15" MBP and are actively considering switching to a Windows computer and this SB2 is definitely going to win quite a few of them.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    People are so spoiled these days, I remember purchasing a 300Mhz Pentium II Dell Inspiron 7000. At it's time it was fastest notebook you can purchase and it cost around $3500. It currently sits in my closet - runs Windows 98 or maybe 95 - and I have not boot it up for over a decade.
  • lilmoe - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Not sure about $3500, but my OG Pentium 100mhz with 32mb RAM, a sound blaster, cd, and 1gb hard drive cost $1400 without the monitor back in 1996. It was running w95.

    In 2002, I bought a top of the line Compac EVO laptop with a Pentium M and 1gb of Ram for my 3rd year in college. It cost me around $1200 from my part time job.

    Get it? Prices go down with time. Parts don't cost manufacturers now nearly a much as they did back then.

    When it comes to the Surface Book, you can get the same top of the line and quality specs from a $1000 - $1250 laptop. Yes, the Surface has nice extras, but are these really worth more than a grand? Are they? It's not even serviceable for God's sake!!!!!!!

    All this markup for design and exclusivity? Are you really OK with the kind of impact this pricing and packaging model has on the market as a whole??

    This isn't about eliminating the race to the bottom anymore. It's really frustrating to see people being OK with paying high $ for decent (NOT exceptional) DISPOSABLE hardware. The other "affordable" gadgets are still being sold with crappy keyboards and screens, mind you. The benefits of mass production are NOT for the consumer anymore.

    Your Inspiron and my EVO still work for this day. This is NOT what these "modern design" PCs are about. The value proposition just isn't nearly as it was, and people like Samus, iSheep, and iSheep wannabes (aka, Android and PC users who pay more just to say theirs cost the same or more than Apple stuff) are eating it all up.

    This is CONSUMER hardware, NOT pro hardware that pays for itself from the very first project.

    No thanks, I'll stick with decently priced Probooks, Latitudes and ThinkPads without the bells and whistles. You know, stuff that you can actually fix and upgrade on the fly, and look good doing that.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Keep in mind - the Dell 7000 was a laptop and not a desktop - big difference.

    yes you can get a notebook cheaper - with similar specs - except not with new 8th generation CPU's. and Gigabyte and MSI notebooks are twice as thick. This is what you essentially paying for. For this thing becomes basically the same form factor as iPad Pro but 15in and with much better performance. Maybe in another 5 years or so every laptop will be like. I have Samsung Tab Pro S - which is basically in similar form factors as the Surface Pro - almost as light as my Samsung Tab S - but big difference can run full Photoshop CS5 and not the online stuff.
  • lilmoe - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    8th gen Intel is a $50-100 markup. The 1060 6gb is about the same. The larger screen is what, $50 more?

    That's $250 to $300, and probably doesn't cost Microsoft as much. You think this warrants $1000 markup over the 13" ?????? Wow. Just wow.

    I normally don't comment on these articles since I don't care what others decide to buy and how much they pay for this. But this IS affecting me as a consumer since other OEMs are watching consumer demand closely and now demand more for what usually costs less.

    I just don't understand this. WHY IN GOD'S NAME ARE YOU PEOPLE OMAR WITH THIS?????
  • lilmoe - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Why are you people *OK* with this...

    Where did "omar" come from.... thanks, Sammy.
  • StructureDr - Monday, October 23, 2017 - link

    Spec for spec the price difference is $300-500 between 13" and 15".

    The illusion is created because the entry 13" has a dual core i5 option - which doesn't exist for the 15"
  • mkozakewich - Sunday, October 22, 2017 - link

    I've been using my 'disposable' Surface Pro for five years, now. That's a lot more than most people get out of a computer.
    Anyone who buys these $3000 computers are expecting it to last six years without a problem.
  • Samus - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Lamborghini’s have ridiculous starting prices too. For what these devices do, they do it better than anything else. So they can charge whatever they want. Many MacBook Pro’s can be spec’d to $3000. Hell, even a Clevo can cost thousands.

    For someone so price sensitive and ignorant of features and form, you are better off sticking with an Acer or Ideapad.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    What features are you talking about? It doesn't even have thunderbolt.

    What form? They are all the same form, tablet screen and tablet keyboard.

    100 grams heavier? Not a problem, since I am neither anorexic nor grossly overweight.

    The only prominent feature this garbage has is planned obsolescence. Couple of years of daily use and the battery will be trash. You will have to either throw it away or pay half its price for a 50$ battery replacement. If that doesn't make you a winner, nothing does.

    The problem is not the price, but what you get for it. The problem is the idiocy, which you bravely and eagerly rush to champion for, sir Dumbalot.
  • lilmoe - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Ah, such as ideal consumer you are. Respect.
  • CoreyWat - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Really wish this was 999 and 1499 respectively, 2499 even with those killer specs is hard to get behind.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Keep in mind this is the "starting price", a top config will be much higher. Once again, m$ targets fools with money. Consider the yoga 720 - 15" 3840x2160 display, 7700hq, 16 gigs of ram, 1 tb ssd, gtx 1050 2gb for 1650$. Build quality is not so "solid" but there is an advantage to that - it is very easy to open the device and upgrade or replace bad components, besides it is not a fashion accessory but a tool. Probably at less than 50% of the price of a similarly configured m$ product it is a no-brainer.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Did I mention it also has thunderbolt? BTW it will be an additional 40$ if you need the pen.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Finally, the ability to upgrade allows to get better specs at an ever more affordable price.

    I got the 8gb/256gb SKU, got another 16gb of ram and a 1tb ssd and it came at 25% cheaper than the 16gb/1tb SKU, plus 50% more memory, plus an extra 256gb ssd which can be put to a good use. You can also put in a sata m2 drive, which will drop cost significantly, and boost battery life a little without being noticeably detrimental to system performance.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    I have a Lenovo Y50 and I will never purchase another Lenovo again. Build quality is horrible and this was a $1200 to $1500 laptop. I went with the Samsung Tab Pro S - because of the screen quality - yes slower processor than top of line Surfaces - but absolutely no fans and better quality screen. Screen is light and day better than the Lenovo's - maybe the X1 which could have the same screen from Samsung.

    I found you get what you pay for. My personal experience with Lenovo has ruled them out. Except for possible the higher end ThinkPads which I used for my job.
  • MamiyaOtaru - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    if you're cool with Lenovo's repeated instances of preloading malware I guess
  • MamiyaOtaru - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    also that Yoga only comes with a discrete GPU in the 15 inch model. 13 inch is integrated only. so whee?
  • ikjadoon - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    I'd be all right even with $1399 and $1799. But $2499? Nah. Not with the terrible reliability of the first Surface Books--Anandtech didn't even recommend them.
  • euskalzabe - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Agreed. Way too expensive, but clearly geared to not compete with OEMs.
  • jjj - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Perfect illustration for what's wrong with humanity, greedy nasty sellers, stupid buyers and corrupted press that serves the seller, not the reader and not the truth.
  • Peskarik - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Yep, everything should be very cheap...including your salary.
  • Meteor2 - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    That doesn't even make sense.
  • adityarjun - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Does the USB c port support Thunderbolt?

    Not that there seems to be a need for it but hypothetically could we connect an external GPU?
  • BucksterMcgee - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    It does not.
  • Jonahkirk - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Lack of thunderbolt would be disappointing to the music "creative types" since most of the new audio interfaces are transitioning to thunderbolt for lower latency
  • Gunbuster - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Only a 1060, no thunderbolt, product limps out at small secret event with only windows cheerleaders invited.

    Sounds like surface development budget has already been cut...
  • Manch - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Only a 1060? LOL You're a horrible troll
  • webdoctors - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Only a 1060? What would you expect? A Titan XP SLI config?!!

    The only drawback on this marvelous product is the pricing. I got a Yoga for half the price but its useless at gaming. Super jealous.
  • willis936 - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Somehow I don't think that coffee lake parts support DDR3...
  • damianrobertjones - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    DDR4-2400, LPDDR3-2133
  • drothgery - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    the 8xxx part on this thing is a Kaby Lake Refresh part, not Coffee Lake
  • willis936 - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    Intel mixed two designs in one series? Astounding.
  • anactoraaron - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Did they ever fix the cpu cooling on these? I had to return a 1st gen i7 512 as when working in camera raw and lightroom converting raw files to jpg caused the cpu temp to spike at 95c. The fan was loud, but oddly I couldn't figure out where the intake and exhaust were. Then I realized that there was no intake or exhaust area. Explained the high temps and was promptly returned.

    Also, everyone here is in agreement in regards to the 15 inch model. Way too expensive.
  • tipoo - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    The 13"s 1050 is already ahead of the 15" rMBPs best Radeon pro 560, and the 1060 is just hilariously above...Come on Apple with those GPU choices, I'd prefer the OS, but the GPUs are making it hard...
  • mdriftmeyer - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Apple's focused on Custom Vega for the iMac Pro December launch and updates to the 12nm Vega for Laptops next Spring. The only other option is for Apple to finally go full Raven Ridge APU.
  • Rictorhell - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Extremely curious to know what the pricing is for the maxed 15" version. Especially if it "starts" at $2500.
  • Manch - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Right now the only differentiator is the SSD size 256 @ 2499, 512 @ 2899, 1TB @ 3299. All have 16GB ram, 1060/6GB. Mouse 99, dock 199, pen 99, and dial 99. Maxed out is 3k, 3.4K, 3.8K respectively. I don't think the laptop prices are unfair but the acc.....yikes. 99 mouse?
  • Rictorhell - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    The thing about this kind of system is that it's always IMPOSSIBLE or near impossible to upgrade it after the fact, so you MUST consider that when making your purchase. If you don't get the maximum ram, etcetera that you need at the time of purchase, there is no way you are going to be able to upgrade, on your own, after the fact.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    They are getting people on these PCIe SSD's a Samsung 960 PCIe SSD can be purchase at Amazon for $443,

    the low price 13 in is misleading - it a dual core i5 with integrated graphics - and the 13in models on have 1050's instead of 1060's

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/su...
  • Manch - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    How is it misleading? They tell you exactly what your getting for the price. I get not liking the price but the webpage aint hard to read.
  • Freakie - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Oh man I hope they give these out at Adobe MAX this year. A few years ago Microsoft gave out the Surface Pro 2, so I am so stoked for a nice surprise!
  • r3loaded - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Did Thunderbolt piss in Microsoft's cornflakes or something? Why such a glaring omission, especially now it's largely open and royalty-free?
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Microsoft is slow in this area - they just got in USB C 3.1 But I was wondering the same thing - this computer should have Thunderbolt 3
  • Gunbuster - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    They cant even be bothered to fix the nagging problem of using the worst in class Avastar WiFi/Bluetooth from the original surface pro all the way to today. That's like 15 products later. The Surface team clearly does not care about performance connectivity. Even on $5000 devices.
  • Reflex - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Thunderbolt is undesirable in the corporate market which is where they are marketing these. Unfortunately as direct access to the PCIe bus it results in very simple compromise everything plugin devices being possible. The companies I've worked with are using laptops where it can either be disabled via a securable UEFI implementation, or filling the port with hot glue.
  • Gunbuster - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Surface is not in the corporate market. They tried and failed hard. I'll give them the fact Surface got lots of trials but then the bad WiFi, Docks, Sleep/Resume problems, no enterprise sales or imaging, on a whim driver and firmware updates, and zero repairability caught up with them. Everyone went to their main laptop partners clones.
  • Reflex - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Citation needed. I am aware of the issues they've had, but there is no evidence they are worse than other brands in that space, and I am aware of several major corporate rollouts. My corporation does not provide them but does permit them if an org is willing to expense them. The lack of TB is a positive from the corporate perspective for the reason I laid out above.
  • ddriver - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    "but there is no evidence they are worse than other brands in that space"

    Nor any better.

    200% the price, 0% better, that problem shouldn't be a problem even for someone as dim as you. Unless of course, your prestigious corporate environment has a thing for throwing money away in addition to your mediocre incompetence ;)
  • Reflex - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Man, your personal attacks in liu of cogent arguments hurt so much. However will I survive your disdain???
  • Gunbuster - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    Cite your own reply "My corporation does not provide them" there you go, see why they failed. Corps I see deploy Dell, HP, Lenovo and have an option for Mac they give to people who want to feel like a fancy pants.
  • Reflex - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    Other corporations I know of do supply them, and they have the ability to expense them here with org approval. It really depends on the need, I do not know of any large corporations that supply only a single solution, usually there is a baseline (for us that is usually HP or Dell, formerly Lenovo) and then there are other options depending on role.

    A lot of our product managers use Surface devices as they find them more useful to their job role. It's not a 'standard' configuration, but given their needs they make sense in that role. The same goes for Macs and developers who work in Eclipse, its not standard and takes a special request, but if the role justifies it is provided or accommodated.
  • damianrobertjones - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    The U class of cpus don't support adding an external GPU once it already has a card due to a lack of lanes.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Please give proof of this - For one thing Thunderbolt is used by Apple and Apple is widely used in corporate. The comment "filling the port with hot glue" totally makes this invalid. No corporation would ever do that - maybe kids that hate Microsoft / Intel would.
  • Reflex - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    1) Apple is not widely used in corporate environments. In fact their market penetration in that space is considerably worse than in the consumer space. Not sure where you got the impression they had a major place in the corporate market.

    2) If you have no way to securely disable a port that can compromise security via a single plug in device, what choice do you have aside from physically disabling it? I have seen that done on more than one occasion in regards to TB ports for systems that have to be secure. Newer UEFI BIOS implementations are making that less necessary since TB mode can be disabled but not everyone has implemented that level of granularity.

    Exposing the PCIe bus, which effectively bypasses security methods such as Bitlocker, is a bad thing for any computer that holds sensitive data.
  • id4andrei - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Maybe MS envisions an AMD powered SB in the future. Why lock out of this option with TB? Also, TB use is niche at best. USB C is indeed the future, not necessarily with TB on board.
  • Reflex - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Honestly, even in the consumer space TB use cases are niche. In the corporate space it is undesirable due to security concerns.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Do you realize that Thunderbolt 3 is superset of USB C - it does everything that USB C does and more. Blindly saying that TB is not necessary the future because AMD does not currently support it is wrong - AMD will have to support TB one day.
  • id4andrei - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    Last time I checked it is proprietary Intel tech. Is Intel allowing AMD to implement it?
  • Reflex - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    There is no roadmap even suggesting that USB will be succeeded by TB. They do different things well, and much like FireWire TB is likely to be used primarily by a niche group of users with specific use cases that are not adequately satisfied by USB.
  • Manch - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Everyone is crapping on the price and some are comparing it to yogas with a much cheaper build. Yes, theyre pricey but I don't think its outrageous. The specs are really nice, and it has things that other laptops don't. Namely the removable screen, which is combined with a multipoint interface that rivals a Wacom digitizer. Have you seen the price of those? add that to your cheap alternative and now its not such a bargain. Everybody wants all the bells and whistles and few are willing to pay. By all means please post up something comparable that has the same features if you can find one.
  • HStewart - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    Yes indeed - and you got to think at price difference between the cheapest and 15 in versions, the cheap $1499 13in does not have NVidia GPU and does not have new Quad Core 8 series i7. This GPU probably takes up the most of price difference. The price difference between the 13in 7 series no dGPU and 13in 8 series with dGPU is around 500. - so going to 15in larger screen resolution probably is reasonable.
  • digiguy - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    To all those that crap on the price of the 15" and compare it to the lonovo yoga, you forget or don't know a very important thing. MS is paying a huge premium for that aspect ratio (this is the first 15" that has it). Many took advantage of the surface pro 3 and 4 screen as MS made that screen almost "mainstream" but every time you want a new screen it's lots of money...
    That's also why Lenovo 25th anniversary thinkpad didn't go with 4:3, it was too expensive as they are not produced anymore. MS at least has the balls to create something new. And the yoga is useless as a tablet or document reader in portrait mode, let alone 2kg vs 800g for the clipboard, so no, it's a different device...
  • Laquey - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    There is no comparing the Lenovo Yoga 720 15" with the surface book 2 it's chalk and cheese:

    Starting with the screen the yoga is a 16:9 ratio versus MS 3:2, 3:2 in this space in infinitely better, each MS screen is individually tested and calibrated to sRGB.

    Battery:
    Lenovo starts at 10 hours MS starts at 17. lol? Which product would you rather be plugging into the wall during the middle of the day?

    OS:
    Lenovo: Windows 10 Home
    MS: Windows 10 Pro

    CPU:
    Lenovo: i7 7th Gen
    MS: i7 8th Gen

    Camera:
    Lenovo: 1MP?????!?!?!
    MS: 5MP, 8MP and Infrared.

    GPU:
    Lenovo: 1050 4 GB
    MS: 1060 6GB

    Build quality:
    Lenovo: ok
    MS: damned fine

    Support:
    Well I got a SB1 which had a dead battery. After 20 minutes on the phone with a tech which took 1 minute to do a call back to me I had my new SB1 in my hands and running 36 hours later.

    lol?

    If you can't afford a surface Book or you need Thunderbolt I guess SB 2 is not for you.
  • nerd1 - Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - link

    SB is simply a design failure. Yes I had one myself. Removing and reattaching top is annoying and bug prone, also limiting hinge angle. Detached top has almost unusable batery life, and overall mechanism is needlessly complex and makes whole device as thick as my gaming laptop. Whole device is painted magnesium that requires extreme babying.

    Thinkpad yoga is 10 times better overall, except for the screen ratio (reliable, better keyboard, expandable, rugged, way lighter, better pen). And I laugh at MS advertising this as "powerhouse". It is just a ULV convertible laptop with very limited cooling.
  • digiguy - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    the thinkpad yoga is unusable in portrait mode because of its aspect ratio and the screen is on another league unless you go with the oled version, which has the same price (around 2500 and more). Convertibles with a 16:9 ratio in general are a nonsense, but nobody except MS has the balls to spend the money necessary to have custom built screens (which is why you then have so many clones taking advantage of the existing line of production...)
  • digiguy - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    PS with the 8th gen CPUs manufacturers can customize the TDP and the 15" version has has a 20+ watt TDP compared to the 15watt in the 13.5" version. And there are even Intel utilities you can use to increase the TDP on your own. Some have pushed it to 45w, getting a full HQ equivalent, if cooling can keep up. Look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IAsVlxppu8
  • Laquey - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    People like you are hilarius, 10 times better hey?

    Removing and attaching the top is annoying and bug prone:
    I've had the top bug out once in two years and that was when MS were rolling out the inintial firmware and software patches for SB1 and hasn't happened since then. It's also not annoying, push a button, done.

    Detached top will get you 3-4 hours of tablet life, considering the device is a laptop first with tablet a clear design second that's not bad at all. If you're doing tablet work more then this device probably isn't your target market.

    The device is light about 1.9KGs which, by the way, is 100 grams+ lighter than the levovo 720 15inch in it's base config. It doesn't require any more babying than any other ultrabook I know of, if you throw this around it's going to break, it's not a toughbook.

    Lenovo isn't reliable, certainly not as much as a fully patched MS SB is and their support is average to awful, yes we have them a enterprise customers.

    The keyboard and pen on the SB are commented on as some of the best in the industry, excellent repsonse and travel. I've talked to numerous creative types who are very attracted to MS hardware for these reasons. That the yogo is expandable is a nice feature but it's still only expandable to the maximum of the SB2 specs. If you choose carefully you won't be bitten here oh and the lenovo certainly isn't more rugged than the SB. If I throw it it will break; hard.

    The SB2 is a powerhouse when it comes to ultrabooks, I think it's best in class on all fronts. Comparing it to the yoga 720 for graphics:

    MS Lenovo
    Cores 1280 768
    GPU Clock 1506 1290
    Memory Speed 8 Gb/s 7Gb/s
    Memory bus width 192 bit 128 bit

    CPU
    Intel 7th gen versus intel 8th gen chalk and cheese, huge jump for multithreaded tasks and with Intel's dual core turbo boost mode I don't see even single or dual core tasks performing better on the 7th gen processor.

    As to cooling, the SB2 13.5 inch i5 range is all passively cooled, take that Lenovo?

    Pull your head out MS hater.
  • nerd1 - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    Im comparing 1st gen surface book to 14"thinkpad yoga, which has comparable 14" screen, wacom pen and weighs 1.3kg (300gr lighter than sb). Both models I had for long term.

    SB's detached top lasted less than 2hrs with my usage and i had to use an external 12v battery. And very obviously Ntrig is much worse than wacom, nothing beats thinkpad keyboard, sb trackpad was very laggy (I havent checked recently, but it was terrible for first two months or so). Thinkpad laptops are vastly more rugged with splashproof keyboard and mil standard certificate (google tortue videos and youll know)

    Finally all laptops are getting 8th gen processors at some point. HP and dell already refreshed theirs and lenovo will soon refresh theirs.

    And I dont care what self-claimed creative people use. They prefer macbooks anyway. I need a practical 2-in-1 device for office work, light web browsing, presentation and inking. I have used MANY devices so far (including most surface devices) and so far TPY is the best for me.
  • Manch - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    If WACOM pen is better then why are they using N-Trig tech in their AES solution? hmmm...
  • boozed - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    3.5" headphone jack. Jebus!
  • WorldWithoutMadness - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    Err... so there is no more surface launch event by Panos anymore? We have 2 products that is almost silent , the velour laptop and this. I miss his presentation and the epic 2x videos with some secrets revealed in the latter video.
  • Gunbuster - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    No big launch? Smells like a de-funded division doesn't it? These are products that were in the pipeline and too far along to outright kill just creeping out to meet commitments probably from the factory they shop it out to. Just look at windows phones that limped out at the end. Then nothing...
  • Rictorhell - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    Have they hopefully been able to make any improvements to the battery life of the display/tablet when detached from the rest of the device? I'm hoping the 8th gen Kaby Lake refresh cpu will mean "yes", even if it's just a slight improvement.
  • digiguy - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    yes, now it's 5 hours
  • Rictorhell - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    If that's true, that's very good news. Maybe I'll starting saving up to get this...versus the other too expensive computer that I was about to start saving up for.
  • plewis00 - Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - link

    I wonder if this thing bends like the first-gen Surface Books I've had - pretty weak design and engineering for such an expensive product... It's that massive gap caused by the Dynamic Fulcrum Hinge.
  • Manch - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    Multiple tests have shown that the hinge is quite sturdy. What issues did yours have?
  • yhselp - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    Wow! Finally, a 15" 3:2 laptop; and one that weighs under 2 kg and packs a GTX 1060 at that. Quite nice. Can't escape the price, though. Wonder whether the ~2 GHz CPU can keep up with the GTX 1060. Looking forward to the review.
  • yhselp - Thursday, October 19, 2017 - link

    Dat 15" 3:2 screen has the practically usable area of a 17" 16:9 unit, and a 14" 16:9 unit for video and games.

    Wonder if/when Chuwi or a similar manufacturer would pick-up the 15" 3:2 screen and put it into a budget laptop. That would be quite something.
  • kmmatney - Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - link

    Looks awesome - but just too expensive. A Dell Inspiron 15" with GTX 1060, 16GB RAM, SSD and 4K screen is $1350. A Dell 15" XPS is about $1700, although only with a 1050 video card. It is impressive that they got a GTX 1060 into that form factor, and overall I'd love to have one of these, but can't get past the price.
  • BigDragon - Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - link

    Goo job, Microsoft! This is an impressive update. The graphics upgrades are more than I expected. I am glad that the larger model has a quad-core in it now. The quad-core, discrete graphics, and pressure pen is what I always wanted in a new machine.

    Unfortunately, I bought a Yoga 720 back in May. Lenovo beat Microsoft to the punch. Maybe next time!

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