I would like to know what you have enabled or disabled in the bios that controls CPU automatic throttling. Typically that would include Enhanced C1 control (C1E), SpeedStep, and for my Asus MB, something called CPU internal thermal control.
These settings affect how the cpu "handles" load and will affect the temps reported to the Ntune program. Programs like CpuZ and Coretemp and Ntune do not detect some of these rapid throttling instances, but the temps of the processor are reduced because of this throttling. The Righmtark CPU temp utility is one of the few programs I know that allows you to visualize this throttling even when you have several of the throttling paramters disabled.
This issue is important because the temps you are seeing, even at idle, are very different for several of your reviewed heatsinks then what end users will experience when they have altered these parameters in the bios.
I believe this will be helpful for end users to feel like the products your reviews are deeming as superior are performing in their hands in a manner similar to your review. Please provide the bios settings to help the end users decide if the equipment they have purchased is functioning properly.
I suspect by doing this, many RMAs and emails to the manufacturer would be reduced.
There is a clear 10C difference between the reported CPU temps at both idle and full load for my QX6700 cpu caused by changing these three settings. Enabling these parameters in the bios I routinely see temps of 33 to 35 C for the cores of my QX6700 at stock speeds, MB temp is 35C. Disabling these parameters, temps on all 4 cores rise to 44C. Thus discrepancy in temps could lead someone to think that the Monsoon II lite cooler I am using is malfunctioning, when in reality it is working properly.
Also it would be helpful if you also tested these devices with the quad core processors which have a higher heat output. By testing the quad core cpus the high end capacity of these heat sinks to move heat would be tested. Providing the thermal resistance Degrees C/Watt would also be a helpful guideling for these devices.
It would also be helpful to comment whether the side door will fit with the thermalright heat sinks. As far as I know this heat sink is taller than the Tuniq which caused end users to move side panel fans and vents.
I think you should consider retesting the Monsoon II Lite. As the only heatsink to make it to 3.96ghz on your OC tests, and with a full 6C increase in temp at 3.90ghz compared to the Ultra 120, I question whether you can replicate your results with the Monsoon at this point. We all know transistors age with OC'ing, and it is possible that your CPU has actually degraded in performance since you tested it with the Monsoon.
There's no reason to think that the Monsoon enabled your CPU to reach 3.96ghz by some magical effect apart from it's cooling ability, which is 6C worse that the Ultra 120 at 3.90ghz.
Sorry my fault I mis-stated the temp difference at 3.90ghz between the two heatsinks, it is actually a paltry 2C!
I think it still might be worthwhile to retest the Monsoon, just because the Tuniq Tower and today's Ultra 120 were unable to reach 3.96ghz even with comparable or better cooling at 3.90ghz.
This is a decent review of the Ultra 120 Wesley, good job. But like another person posted, I also had gotten an Ultra 120 with a bad base finish. In my case, there was a machining ridge left on one side of the base that interfered with getting a flush mount plus the base was fairly concave too. And my initial testing of it (with those defects) found the performance to be no better than the stock Intel heatsink. After I filed the ridge down on the edge, then lapped the base of the Ultra 120 to be flat, the performance was much like the performance that you had with yours. I also tested it with both the S-Flex fan you chose plus I tried the Tuniq Tower's fan too(I also have one of those heatsinks) and saw very little difference in cooling ability with either fan mounted on either heatsink. So for the folks that want to swap out the Tuniq Tower's stock fan with the 63 cfm S-Flex you will only lose a minimal amount of performance and the S-Flex is noticeably quieter.
Also in testing my Ultra 120, I tested on a socket 939 AMD system too and ran into a mounting orientation problem with my motherboard. Since AMD doesn't use a square mounting pattern on socket 939 (or 754 or 940 or AM2 for that matter), you can't just change the mounting direction by simply rotating the heatsink 90 degrees. Thermalright does make an "S" clip for this though, which I also tried out. The "S" clip is a real PITA to mount with but does do the job effectively and gives you a decent mount.
Finally, with the Ultra 120 you have the ability to mount different thickness fans too, unlike the Tuniq Tower. You can easily use any of the Panaflo 120 X 38 mm fans and if you are brave enough you can even mount the Delta GFB1212VHW 120 X 76 mm fan if you think it would help in cooling (I don't think so as there seems to be a point of diminishing returns on added cooling efficiency with this heatsink past 60-70 cfm with a moderate max static pressure fan).
The biggest problem I see with Thermalright's products lately is the somewhat variable nature of their quality control on base finish. I've also gotten some XP90's in the last year or so with concave base finishes that required lapping too. But other than that, Thermalright has some of the best designs on the market in my opinion.
I have been having good success with the HR-01 from Thermalright, so I am glad to see this review which more accurately measures the performance of *this* heatsink versus competitors, which looks even better than the HR-01 in terms of construction quality (the HR-01, despite its good performance, looks unfinished).
As far as the stock Intel coolers go, I have been pleasantly surprised by the latest generation of both Intel and AMD stock coolers. Though I recently replaced a customer's late model P4 stock heatsink (LG775 3.04 Prescott) with an HR-01 with Scythe SFF21F because of crazy temps that were causing the system to power down. Tried adjusting the heatsink, and when cleaning and reapplying thermal paste to the stock cooler I noticed that as opposed to the copper core of the C2D coolers, this had a chrome-like metal. After reinstallation, the temperature at idle was still crazy hot, with no apparent reason (Intel board, voltages looked OK, no overclocking, etc.. After installing the HR-01, idle dropped to 32C, full load after 20 minutes was 47C-49C.
As an aside, I am really not digging the new Intel fasteners. There always seems to be one that doesn't want to go in easily, and/or you can't hear the click. Then I go nuts trying to verify whether or not it is really in. Hopefully, AMD will not follow that system.
Awesome review, I love the amount of detail and variables involved in the test, very comprehensive and well described.
I was set on a Tuniq but after being frustrated by how hard they are to get in Canada, I am going to go with an Ultra 120 instead. My current PC (4 year old P4 2.6 Northwood @ 3.25) has been cooled with a Thermalright SLK-900U (copper) and has been stablewith a 625MHz OC for 4 years. I like the company.
Anyone know if there are any fit issues using the Ultra 120 with a Asus P5B-E in an Antec P180B/P182 case?
I know you specified in your article that an adaptor for AM2 needs to be purchased separately but I don't find this quite normal. I think Thermalright should make an effort and support AM2 out of the box. After all AM2 isn't a new thing , it's been out for quite some time now and it's also here to stay. An extra adaptor costs more and might also be hard to find.
Maybe you should ask Thermalright and have an official position as to why it's so hard to support AM2 out of the box. Socket 754 and 939 are cool but they're quite dead.
quote: Thermalright recommends a power supply with a down-facing fan (one that blows air on the CPU)
Are you sure you're describing that correctly? I don't ever recall seeing such a power supply, unless someone screwed up and installed the fan backwards. I agree though that a power supply with a bottom fan would be better suited to cool a fanless heatsink, but because it draws in air FROM the CPU area not blows ONTO the cpu area.
I think you misunderstood the gist of my comment, but your correction to the article is indeed correct. I was making the point that the bottom fan of a power supply does not BLOW air onto the CPU area, rather it intakes air FROM that area. I'm well aware there are numerous such power supplies available (personally I prefer the ones that have both a bottom and a rear fan, but there are valid points both ways on that debate).
Sometimes I try to be too creative in my phrasing, thus obfuscating my central point beyond recognition.
Since you're reviewing HS, perhaps you need to test them all with the same fan (assuming they take the same fan size). Obviously some come with fans, and you'd want to test with the stock fan, but to make things equal, I think you need to pick a fan (Skythe, Noctua, Panaflo et al.) and test them all with that fan as well. Only then will we know what the best HS is.
My guess is that Thermalright would still be up there, as they're generally one of the best HS makers (if not the best) out there.
I would love to see a review of the Ultra 90 you mentioned on page 2. I'm hoping to find something a little lighter than these highend coolers without moving into the budget sector.
Thank you guys for another great review! Great Job!
It's nice that these coolers are being tested with new setups (C2D) unlike many other sites that choose to test with "old hardware".
I've always been a fan of the Thermalright Ultra 120 which BTW has kept my 4ghz overclock (E6600) idling @ 28-35 and 50c under load. I tried a Tuniq Tower but the results were @ least 5c higher with the Tuniq!
quote: The problem here is that the mounted fan cannot have a closed mounting post, which is common on many fans. The Thermalright design will only work with open holes and no posts on the fan
A few minutes with a hacksaw works fine to remove a section of the fan posts. That's what I ended up doing with my Thermalright Ultra-120/Yate Loon D12SL-12.
Your suggestion works, and the hack saw works best if you have a vise to hold the fan while you saw. A jigsaw melts the plastic as it moves too fast and creates too much heat for the plastic as it cuts - so it does not work as well.
HOWEVER, this is a review of a heatsink that does not come with a fan and the special fan post requirements need to be pointed out. Not everyone wants to do shop work on a fan before it will mount on a heatsink.
I wonder why you tested only the single fan setup. The design of the Ultra 120 definitely suggests a perfect push and pull combo. Also, you didn't mention about the mounting surface of the Ultra 120. It's known that Ultra 120 has a pretty much uneven surface (observable with unaided eyes). I had to lap mine to not only expose the copper surface but also to make the surface flat.
The reason I brought this up because there are people that don't care about noise and would prefer a very high-performance air-cooling. If the dual setup and a more even mounting surface would help, I would think it would put the Ultra 120 head and shoulder above the Tuniq Tower for these people (that would include me).
I happened to own both Tuniq and Ultra 120, and I would say I prefer the flexibility the Ultra 120 offers.
Other than some of the minor points that I've pointed out, I would say that this review (and other recent HSF reviews) is an excellent one. Keep up the good work. BTW, I wonder when you're gonna do a piece on the Coolit Freezone.
The Thermalright mounting holes were not designed to hold fan wires for two fans. They are about the diameter of a single wire and two just won't fit. The lower fan clip mount hole opens and breaks if you try to mount two fan wires in the mounting hole. Clearly Thermalright did not design the Ultra 120 for multiple fan mount, though we agree the design looks a natural for a push-pull fan setup. In the end the Thermalright cooled as well or better than anything, even a two-fan Infinity, using just one excellent fan.
The mounting surface of the Thermalright was reasonably flat and smooth. The flatness mattered a great deal more when you were dealing with a small surface area mount like the AMD Socket A from the past. With processors today shipping with a large area heatspreader the surface flatness is less important, but it still matters.
The proper application of thermal compound matters a great deal in performance. We usually place a little larger than a BB-sixed glob of thermal in the center of the CPU and mount. When the heatsink is removed that normally has spread on mounting to the edges of the processor with no thermal grease builup around the sides of the processor. THe prurpose of thermal grease is to fill the irregularites of the mounting surfaces and improve contact between the mounting surfaces.
Guess in the end it's not just the # of heatpipes and overall fin surface area. Great review overall. btw, what kind of thermal compound do you guys use? And I thought fluid dynamic bearing was developed by Panasonic instead of sony.
Would it be possible in the future to test arctic coolings Freezer 7 Pro? That looks like a decent tower heatsink, and it comes with a fan too. Also it's much cheaper as well. It will be really nice to see how that heatsink compares to the bigger towers. Another question I have concerns with previous generation heatsinks. Currently I have a ThermalRight XP-90 with a 92mm panaflo, my cpu is a socket 478 P4 3.0ghz OCed to 3.6ghz at default v-core (it's a northwood core btw). I know XP-90 is a very good heatsink, and I'm really considering of using it on my future LGA775 setup (with a LGA775 bracket), but it's really hard to compare it with new heatsinks. Thanks again.
I have referenced the review showing toothpaste and Kraft Vegemite superior to a well-known siver compound several times in past review comments. As we have stated several times, in our experience the thermal compound doen't matter. The Thermalright comes with a white soupy themermal compound in a tube, and that is what we used. As we have said before, if the cooler manufacturer cares enough to include a tube or jar of thermal grease that is what we use. If it is just a packet or no thermal grease included, we use our standard silver-colred (no silver content) tube thermal compound.
In our tests of various thermal compounds in the past, we found the thermal compound made used made no difference at all. That is particularly true now that all the current CPUs use heatspreaders. On past small surface area processors like the AMD Socket A, The thinner compounds were sometimes more effective short term, but even there the thermal grease used made no difference in cooling after a few days pf seating - all else being the same.
What were the results of this fan in the Tuniq 120 and did you try it on the Scythe that was reviewed last week? It looks like a fan review is in order after seeing these results.
The Tuniq and Scythe are supplied with 120mm fans, and we tested the heatsinks with those fans. The Thermalright does not come with a fan, so we used the best fan we had in the lab that balanced quiet and cfm, in this case the Scythe S-Flex, for testing.
With the Scythe Infinity, we also tested the 2-fan push-pull configuration using two Scythe stock fans that are like those shippied with the Infinity. These are NOT the same fan as the Scythe S-Flex. We tested this configuration because Scythe claimed the multi-fan setup was best for demanding cooling situations and the Infinity heatsink can mount up to 4 fans.
Introducing the fan as another variable in standard heatsink reviews changes the scope of these reviews. You can always replace the fan with a better one if it is removable, as we say in almost every review. Most fans can be replaced, but the Zalman coolers, for example, use non-removable embedded fans. We will take a closer look at 120mm fans in the future, but for now we will test with the fan supplied with the heatsink. This is how users will buy the heatsink.
It is likely the Tuniq fan noise at full speed could be reduced by using the Scythe S-Flex instead of the supplied Tuniq fan. However, sooling effieciency of the Tuniq and Thermalright Ultra 120 are already virtually the same, and we seriously doubt the Tuniq would coold more effectively than it already does by changing to a Scythe S-Flex fan. We did try a high-output Silverstone fan on the Infinity in that review, and it did marginally improve cooling a degree C, however a high-output fan on the Infinity doid not bring the single fan Infinity even close to the cooling performance of the Tuniq Tower 120 or the Thermalright Ultra 120. THe overclocking still topped out at 3.83GHz with a single fan on the Infinity and 3.90GHz with the dual fan push-pull.
Hi Wesley. That was a GREAT review with totally unbelievable results and you have clarified things like the thermal compound influence on these reviews.
Do you think the Scythe Infinity would be closer to the Tuniq 120 (like 54-55ºC) if it was mounted with the dual fan push-pull configuration usign 2 Scythe S-Flex or something stronger like 2 Scythe Minebea NMB Silent IC Series (75.9 CFM - 31.0 dBA)?
The Scythe Infinity stock fans are considerably lower output than the Scythe S-Flex fan, but they are very quiet. I suspect two S-Flex SFF21F fans in push pull would definitely improve the cooling efficientcy of the Infinity.
However you may want to wait a few days to see a review of a new cooler from Thermaltake. It will post this week and is definitely worth waiting for.
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30 Comments
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hox - Thursday, March 8, 2007 - link
I would like to know what you have enabled or disabled in the bios that controls CPU automatic throttling. Typically that would include Enhanced C1 control (C1E), SpeedStep, and for my Asus MB, something called CPU internal thermal control.These settings affect how the cpu "handles" load and will affect the temps reported to the Ntune program. Programs like CpuZ and Coretemp and Ntune do not detect some of these rapid throttling instances, but the temps of the processor are reduced because of this throttling. The Righmtark CPU temp utility is one of the few programs I know that allows you to visualize this throttling even when you have several of the throttling paramters disabled.
This issue is important because the temps you are seeing, even at idle, are very different for several of your reviewed heatsinks then what end users will experience when they have altered these parameters in the bios.
I believe this will be helpful for end users to feel like the products your reviews are deeming as superior are performing in their hands in a manner similar to your review. Please provide the bios settings to help the end users decide if the equipment they have purchased is functioning properly.
I suspect by doing this, many RMAs and emails to the manufacturer would be reduced.
There is a clear 10C difference between the reported CPU temps at both idle and full load for my QX6700 cpu caused by changing these three settings. Enabling these parameters in the bios I routinely see temps of 33 to 35 C for the cores of my QX6700 at stock speeds, MB temp is 35C. Disabling these parameters, temps on all 4 cores rise to 44C. Thus discrepancy in temps could lead someone to think that the Monsoon II lite cooler I am using is malfunctioning, when in reality it is working properly.
Also it would be helpful if you also tested these devices with the quad core processors which have a higher heat output. By testing the quad core cpus the high end capacity of these heat sinks to move heat would be tested. Providing the thermal resistance Degrees C/Watt would also be a helpful guideling for these devices.
It would also be helpful to comment whether the side door will fit with the thermalright heat sinks. As far as I know this heat sink is taller than the Tuniq which caused end users to move side panel fans and vents.
Thank you
arswihart - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - link
I think you should consider retesting the Monsoon II Lite. As the only heatsink to make it to 3.96ghz on your OC tests, and with a full 6C increase in temp at 3.90ghz compared to the Ultra 120, I question whether you can replicate your results with the Monsoon at this point. We all know transistors age with OC'ing, and it is possible that your CPU has actually degraded in performance since you tested it with the Monsoon.There's no reason to think that the Monsoon enabled your CPU to reach 3.96ghz by some magical effect apart from it's cooling ability, which is 6C worse that the Ultra 120 at 3.90ghz.
arswihart - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - link
Sorry my fault I mis-stated the temp difference at 3.90ghz between the two heatsinks, it is actually a paltry 2C!I think it still might be worthwhile to retest the Monsoon, just because the Tuniq Tower and today's Ultra 120 were unable to reach 3.96ghz even with comparable or better cooling at 3.90ghz.
muddocktor - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
This is a decent review of the Ultra 120 Wesley, good job. But like another person posted, I also had gotten an Ultra 120 with a bad base finish. In my case, there was a machining ridge left on one side of the base that interfered with getting a flush mount plus the base was fairly concave too. And my initial testing of it (with those defects) found the performance to be no better than the stock Intel heatsink. After I filed the ridge down on the edge, then lapped the base of the Ultra 120 to be flat, the performance was much like the performance that you had with yours. I also tested it with both the S-Flex fan you chose plus I tried the Tuniq Tower's fan too(I also have one of those heatsinks) and saw very little difference in cooling ability with either fan mounted on either heatsink. So for the folks that want to swap out the Tuniq Tower's stock fan with the 63 cfm S-Flex you will only lose a minimal amount of performance and the S-Flex is noticeably quieter.Also in testing my Ultra 120, I tested on a socket 939 AMD system too and ran into a mounting orientation problem with my motherboard. Since AMD doesn't use a square mounting pattern on socket 939 (or 754 or 940 or AM2 for that matter), you can't just change the mounting direction by simply rotating the heatsink 90 degrees. Thermalright does make an "S" clip for this though, which I also tried out. The "S" clip is a real PITA to mount with but does do the job effectively and gives you a decent mount.
Finally, with the Ultra 120 you have the ability to mount different thickness fans too, unlike the Tuniq Tower. You can easily use any of the Panaflo 120 X 38 mm fans and if you are brave enough you can even mount the Delta GFB1212VHW 120 X 76 mm fan if you think it would help in cooling (I don't think so as there seems to be a point of diminishing returns on added cooling efficiency with this heatsink past 60-70 cfm with a moderate max static pressure fan).
The biggest problem I see with Thermalright's products lately is the somewhat variable nature of their quality control on base finish. I've also gotten some XP90's in the last year or so with concave base finishes that required lapping too. But other than that, Thermalright has some of the best designs on the market in my opinion.
takumsawsherman - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
I have been having good success with the HR-01 from Thermalright, so I am glad to see this review which more accurately measures the performance of *this* heatsink versus competitors, which looks even better than the HR-01 in terms of construction quality (the HR-01, despite its good performance, looks unfinished).As far as the stock Intel coolers go, I have been pleasantly surprised by the latest generation of both Intel and AMD stock coolers. Though I recently replaced a customer's late model P4 stock heatsink (LG775 3.04 Prescott) with an HR-01 with Scythe SFF21F because of crazy temps that were causing the system to power down. Tried adjusting the heatsink, and when cleaning and reapplying thermal paste to the stock cooler I noticed that as opposed to the copper core of the C2D coolers, this had a chrome-like metal. After reinstallation, the temperature at idle was still crazy hot, with no apparent reason (Intel board, voltages looked OK, no overclocking, etc.. After installing the HR-01, idle dropped to 32C, full load after 20 minutes was 47C-49C.
As an aside, I am really not digging the new Intel fasteners. There always seems to be one that doesn't want to go in easily, and/or you can't hear the click. Then I go nuts trying to verify whether or not it is really in. Hopefully, AMD will not follow that system.
gramboh - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Awesome review, I love the amount of detail and variables involved in the test, very comprehensive and well described.I was set on a Tuniq but after being frustrated by how hard they are to get in Canada, I am going to go with an Ultra 120 instead. My current PC (4 year old P4 2.6 Northwood @ 3.25) has been cooled with a Thermalright SLK-900U (copper) and has been stablewith a 625MHz OC for 4 years. I like the company.
Anyone know if there are any fit issues using the Ultra 120 with a Asus P5B-E in an Antec P180B/P182 case?
Thanks
AbRASiON - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Nice article but all it has convinced me is that the intel stock cooler is surprisingly pretty good for "free"It's not too noisy (for a change) it's not holding back overclocking (that much) and it costs 0$
If you're a budget guy, right now an E4300 with the stock cooler is pretty ok for cheap.
Baked - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Thank you Anandtech for finally reviewing this HSF. Thermalright is king baby.mforce - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
I know you specified in your article that an adaptor for AM2 needs to be purchased separately but I don't find this quite normal. I think Thermalright should make an effort and support AM2 out of the box. After all AM2 isn't a new thing , it's been out for quite some time now and it's also here to stay. An extra adaptor costs more and might also be hard to find.Maybe you should ask Thermalright and have an official position as to why it's so hard to support AM2 out of the box. Socket 754 and 939 are cool but they're quite dead.
johnsonx - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Are you sure you're describing that correctly? I don't ever recall seeing such a power supply, unless someone screwed up and installed the fan backwards. I agree though that a power supply with a bottom fan would be better suited to cool a fanless heatsink, but because it draws in air FROM the CPU area not blows ONTO the cpu area.
Wesley Fink - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
I have changed the comment to "remove" air.A quick glimpse at www.newegg.com shows a number of power supplies with down-facing fans. Examples are the the OCZ GameXStream 700 at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82..., the Seasonic at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82..., the Coolermaster 550W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82..., the Thermaltake 550w at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82..., the Raidmax at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82..., and the Enermax at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82....
Even at the low end you can find down-facing fans such as the Xion 500W, $29.95 after rebate at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82..., the house brand Rosewell 400w at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82..., and the Sparkle 350W at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82....
Fans which remove air from the CPU area are VERY common and not difficult to find.
johnsonx - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - link
I think you misunderstood the gist of my comment, but your correction to the article is indeed correct. I was making the point that the bottom fan of a power supply does not BLOW air onto the CPU area, rather it intakes air FROM that area. I'm well aware there are numerous such power supplies available (personally I prefer the ones that have both a bottom and a rear fan, but there are valid points both ways on that debate).Sometimes I try to be too creative in my phrasing, thus obfuscating my central point beyond recognition.
nilepez - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Since you're reviewing HS, perhaps you need to test them all with the same fan (assuming they take the same fan size). Obviously some come with fans, and you'd want to test with the stock fan, but to make things equal, I think you need to pick a fan (Skythe, Noctua, Panaflo et al.) and test them all with that fan as well. Only then will we know what the best HS is.My guess is that Thermalright would still be up there, as they're generally one of the best HS makers (if not the best) out there.
Rocket321 - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
I would love to see a review of the Ultra 90 you mentioned on page 2. I'm hoping to find something a little lighter than these highend coolers without moving into the budget sector.ADDAvenger - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
I'd be interested in a review of that as wellorion23 - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Thank you guys for another great review! Great Job!It's nice that these coolers are being tested with new setups (C2D) unlike many other sites that choose to test with "old hardware".
I've always been a fan of the Thermalright Ultra 120 which BTW has kept my 4ghz overclock (E6600) idling @ 28-35 and 50c under load. I tried a Tuniq Tower but the results were @ least 5c higher with the Tuniq!
Go Thermalright!
jonman03 - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - link
I have to agree, we get alot of requests for these on our custom systems. Great cooler, looks great in windowed cases. What else could you ask for?http://www.plugcomputers.com">Custom Gaming Computers - Plug Computers
1111111 - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
A few minutes with a hacksaw works fine to remove a section of the fan posts. That's what I ended up doing with my Thermalright Ultra-120/Yate Loon D12SL-12.
Wesley Fink - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Your suggestion works, and the hack saw works best if you have a vise to hold the fan while you saw. A jigsaw melts the plastic as it moves too fast and creates too much heat for the plastic as it cuts - so it does not work as well.HOWEVER, this is a review of a heatsink that does not come with a fan and the special fan post requirements need to be pointed out. Not everyone wants to do shop work on a fan before it will mount on a heatsink.
hiepbiz - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
I wonder why you tested only the single fan setup. The design of the Ultra 120 definitely suggests a perfect push and pull combo. Also, you didn't mention about the mounting surface of the Ultra 120. It's known that Ultra 120 has a pretty much uneven surface (observable with unaided eyes). I had to lap mine to not only expose the copper surface but also to make the surface flat.The reason I brought this up because there are people that don't care about noise and would prefer a very high-performance air-cooling. If the dual setup and a more even mounting surface would help, I would think it would put the Ultra 120 head and shoulder above the Tuniq Tower for these people (that would include me).
I happened to own both Tuniq and Ultra 120, and I would say I prefer the flexibility the Ultra 120 offers.
Other than some of the minor points that I've pointed out, I would say that this review (and other recent HSF reviews) is an excellent one. Keep up the good work. BTW, I wonder when you're gonna do a piece on the Coolit Freezone.
Wesley Fink - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
The Thermalright mounting holes were not designed to hold fan wires for two fans. They are about the diameter of a single wire and two just won't fit. The lower fan clip mount hole opens and breaks if you try to mount two fan wires in the mounting hole. Clearly Thermalright did not design the Ultra 120 for multiple fan mount, though we agree the design looks a natural for a push-pull fan setup. In the end the Thermalright cooled as well or better than anything, even a two-fan Infinity, using just one excellent fan.The mounting surface of the Thermalright was reasonably flat and smooth. The flatness mattered a great deal more when you were dealing with a small surface area mount like the AMD Socket A from the past. With processors today shipping with a large area heatspreader the surface flatness is less important, but it still matters.
The proper application of thermal compound matters a great deal in performance. We usually place a little larger than a BB-sixed glob of thermal in the center of the CPU and mount. When the heatsink is removed that normally has spread on mounting to the edges of the processor with no thermal grease builup around the sides of the processor. THe prurpose of thermal grease is to fill the irregularites of the mounting surfaces and improve contact between the mounting surfaces.
xsilver - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
would it be easy for a mod job to add the ability to mount 2 fans? screwing them in to the fins directly maybe?JoKeRr - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Guess in the end it's not just the # of heatpipes and overall fin surface area. Great review overall. btw, what kind of thermal compound do you guys use? And I thought fluid dynamic bearing was developed by Panasonic instead of sony.Would it be possible in the future to test arctic coolings Freezer 7 Pro? That looks like a decent tower heatsink, and it comes with a fan too. Also it's much cheaper as well. It will be really nice to see how that heatsink compares to the bigger towers. Another question I have concerns with previous generation heatsinks. Currently I have a ThermalRight XP-90 with a 92mm panaflo, my cpu is a socket 478 P4 3.0ghz OCed to 3.6ghz at default v-core (it's a northwood core btw). I know XP-90 is a very good heatsink, and I'm really considering of using it on my future LGA775 setup (with a LGA775 bracket), but it's really hard to compare it with new heatsinks. Thanks again.
Wesley Fink - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
I have referenced the review showing toothpaste and Kraft Vegemite superior to a well-known siver compound several times in past review comments. As we have stated several times, in our experience the thermal compound doen't matter. The Thermalright comes with a white soupy themermal compound in a tube, and that is what we used. As we have said before, if the cooler manufacturer cares enough to include a tube or jar of thermal grease that is what we use. If it is just a packet or no thermal grease included, we use our standard silver-colred (no silver content) tube thermal compound.In our tests of various thermal compounds in the past, we found the thermal compound made used made no difference at all. That is particularly true now that all the current CPUs use heatspreaders. On past small surface area processors like the AMD Socket A, The thinner compounds were sometimes more effective short term, but even there the thermal grease used made no difference in cooling after a few days pf seating - all else being the same.
Souka - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
Hmm...I seem to recall a number of reviews that clearly demonstrate the differing effects of compounds on coolers....
DrMrLordX - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - link
I believe you mean reviews like this?http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/DaClan-Rev...">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware...-Interfa...
Shin-Etsu x23 = winnar
goinginstyle - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
What were the results of this fan in the Tuniq 120 and did you try it on the Scythe that was reviewed last week? It looks like a fan review is in order after seeing these results.Wesley Fink - Monday, March 5, 2007 - link
The Tuniq and Scythe are supplied with 120mm fans, and we tested the heatsinks with those fans. The Thermalright does not come with a fan, so we used the best fan we had in the lab that balanced quiet and cfm, in this case the Scythe S-Flex, for testing.With the Scythe Infinity, we also tested the 2-fan push-pull configuration using two Scythe stock fans that are like those shippied with the Infinity. These are NOT the same fan as the Scythe S-Flex. We tested this configuration because Scythe claimed the multi-fan setup was best for demanding cooling situations and the Infinity heatsink can mount up to 4 fans.
Introducing the fan as another variable in standard heatsink reviews changes the scope of these reviews. You can always replace the fan with a better one if it is removable, as we say in almost every review. Most fans can be replaced, but the Zalman coolers, for example, use non-removable embedded fans. We will take a closer look at 120mm fans in the future, but for now we will test with the fan supplied with the heatsink. This is how users will buy the heatsink.
It is likely the Tuniq fan noise at full speed could be reduced by using the Scythe S-Flex instead of the supplied Tuniq fan. However, sooling effieciency of the Tuniq and Thermalright Ultra 120 are already virtually the same, and we seriously doubt the Tuniq would coold more effectively than it already does by changing to a Scythe S-Flex fan. We did try a high-output Silverstone fan on the Infinity in that review, and it did marginally improve cooling a degree C, however a high-output fan on the Infinity doid not bring the single fan Infinity even close to the cooling performance of the Tuniq Tower 120 or the Thermalright Ultra 120. THe overclocking still topped out at 3.83GHz with a single fan on the Infinity and 3.90GHz with the dual fan push-pull.
PICBoy - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - link
Hi Wesley. That was a GREAT review with totally unbelievable results and you have clarified things like the thermal compound influence on these reviews.Do you think the Scythe Infinity would be closer to the Tuniq 120 (like 54-55ºC) if it was mounted with the dual fan push-pull configuration usign 2 Scythe S-Flex or something stronger like 2 Scythe Minebea NMB Silent IC Series (75.9 CFM - 31.0 dBA)?
Wesley Fink - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - link
The Scythe Infinity stock fans are considerably lower output than the Scythe S-Flex fan, but they are very quiet. I suspect two S-Flex SFF21F fans in push pull would definitely improve the cooling efficientcy of the Infinity.However you may want to wait a few days to see a review of a new cooler from Thermaltake. It will post this week and is definitely worth waiting for.