Intel's E7205: Granite Bay Hits the Streets
by Evan Lieb on November 18, 2002 9:56 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
Tyan S2662: Tech Support and RMA
For your reference, we will repost our tech support evaluation procedure here:
The way our Tech Support evaluation works is first we anonymously email the manufacturer's tech support address(es), obviously not using our AnandTech mail server to avoid any sort of preferential treatment. Our emails (we can and will send more than one just to make sure we're not getting the staff on an "off" day) all contain fixable problems that we've had with our motherboard. We then give the manufacturer up to 72 hours to respond over business days and will report not only whether they even responded within the time allotted but also if they were successful in fixing our problems. If we do eventually receive a response after the review is published, we will go back and amend the review with the total time it took for the manufacturer to respond to our requests.
The idea here is to encourage manufacturers to improve their technical support as well as provide new criteria to base your motherboard purchasing decisions upon; with motherboards looking more and more alike every day, we have to help separate the boys from the men in as many ways as possible. As usual, we're interested in your feedback on this and other parts of our reviews so please do email us with your comments.
The following is Tyan's RMA policy, listed directly on their web site (http://www.tyan.com/support/html/faq_rma.html):
RMA / Repair / Replacement FAQ
- What is Tyan´s RMA procedure?
If the motherboard(s) you have is defective and requires a repair or replacement then please contact your distributor or place of purchase. Normally, they will be able to assist for a RMA. However, if the motherboard(s) is out of their warranty or for some reason your dealer is unable to support you, then please contact Tyan Tech Support in order to start the RMA process through Tyan Computer. Tyan Computer DOES NOT ADVANCE REPLACE or CROSS-SHIP in the event the motherboard(s) become defective. The average turn-a-round time for RMA repair/replacement is 2-3 weeks. Tyan Tech Support can be reached by email at techsupport@tyan.com.- I have a dead board, now what?
DOAs should be returned promptly to your dealer for replacement.- I need a BIOS replaced.. where can I get one?
BIOS replacements can be purchased from your dealer. If they do not carry them, have them order one for you. Tyan is not able to sell replacements directly to the end user. BIOS World regularly stocks BIOS replacements for our motherboards. Please see their procedure for BIOS replacement orders.- Who do I talk to for a replacement or refund?
Contact your reseller for replacement, refunds or repair orders.- Who do I talk to to get my product repaired?
Contact your reseller for RMA procedures.- Who do I talk to to get support?
End users should contact their place of purchase for technical support. Engineering level support is available from TYAN directly on a pre-arranged basis with your local reseller.- What if my dealer can't help me?
If your dealer is not able to help you, have your dealer contact us directly on your behalf to arrange for engineering level support. We also recommend that you search the site for your problem or study the FAQs for possible solutions before contacting our support team.
This policy isn't too bad at all, though, like most other top tier motherboard makers, Tyan wants you to first deal with your vendor before you go to them. We should mention that a very important part about an RMA policy is that it's made clear. In Tyan's case, they list their RMA policy clearly and explicitly on their web site, while other motherboard makers simply don't list it at all unless you email them. Tyan is crystal clear about their other policies as well, including warranty and tech support.
Tyan has a three-year warranty. Normally, if a user experiences a problem within 30 days, they can take it back to point-of-purchase and get a new board. Tyan's national distributors have a policy in-place with them, as well as with their customers.
Actually, Tyan's tech support works much like Intel's in several ways. One example is how Tyan sends an auto reply message once you've sent out your question to tech support, which is exactly what Intel does. This auto reply says, among other things, that your question will be answered within the next two business days, which is yet another feature that mirrors Intel. In general, this is a good tech support procedure, as sending an auto reply ensures that the company in question is aware of the user's questions and needs.
Tyan's technical support department is a bit different compared with our experiences with other motherboard makers. The main differentiating factor is that Tyan makes it very clear from the start that they want users to review their FAQs thoroughly before sending off an email to their tech support department. This is made abundantly clear by reading this page on their web site. It's completely understandable why Tyan is emphasizing their FAQs; they don't want to waste time with tech support emails that can be adequately answered by reading their FAQ sheet, which would give Tyan's tech support staff more time to answer the questions that can't be answered by reading the FAQ sheet.
Knowing these facts, we decided to email Tyan a question that wasn't answered in their FAQ. However, since we received Tyan's board a little bit later than the other Granite Bay motherboards, we were initially going to mention in this review that we couldn't give Tyan 72 hours to respond to our tech support email, which indeed we were unable to. However, since Tyan responded to our email within 5 hours, well, we think this speaks for itself. This is the best response time we've seen out of any tier one motherboard maker. In addition, the tech support fellow was quite helpful in answering our question.
Tyan's RMA procedure is very similar to other ones we've encountered in the past, although what makes Tyan stand out is how clear they are about their RMA policy on their web site. Tyan's tech support is some of the most impressive we've seen, with great response time and exceptional organization in general.
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hrumsey - Friday, January 7, 2005 - link
Regarding previous comment:And I told this thing to show e-mail address. hrumsey@charter.net if anyone has questions.
It also removed paragraph indents that would make the above post a bit more readable- apologies.
And a clarification: The ZCR card could be seen to be flashed only because a jumper change is needed to put them in flash mode. In normal mode, the Thunder K8S Pro S2882 BIOS was squashing the Adaptec 2010S / 2015S BIOS.
Damn, I hope Google indexes that comment well.
Speaking of which, for you-know-who:
Tyan Thunder K8S Pro Adaptec 2010S 2015S ZCR RAID BIOS problem incompatibility bug hang failure download flash PCI-X
Tyan 2882 K8S Pro Thunder ZCR Adaptec 2015S 2010S RAID bug hang failure problem incompatibility PCI-X flash BIOS download
Thunder Tyan 2882 K8S Pro ZCR Adaptec RAID 2010S 2015S BIOS incompatibility problem failure hang PCI-X BIOS bug flash download
wildly incompetent screen-reading technical support monkeys
beta-testing on customers
See previous comment
hrumsey - Friday, January 7, 2005 - link
Anandtech's evaluation covers how good Tyan's tech support is in the absence of any real problem for them to deal with. I would suggest that this is not an adequate criterion.Our experiences were different.
The issue of product quality is relevant here, since it makes the quality of technical support more important if the product is poor. My company tried Tyan boards several years ago, and gave up when along with 4 DOAs, 3 quick in-service failures gave a defective rate of almost 50%. I mistakenly thought almost 10 years would be enough for the company to straighten out.
We ordered 3 Thunder Pro S2882s for a client taking a website inhouse who wanted a 64-bit option- this was before Intel's 64-bit Xeons showed up.
All of the following happened under time pressure, which isn't unusual, and why better support than Tyan's is necessary:
One of the three boards was DOA; wouldn't flash any of three Adaptec 2010S ZCR cards; the other two would. Tyan's tech support essentially kept assuming we were doing something wrong and, and at one point asked if we had the current BIOS on the ZCR cards. They must not have any sort of decent database, since the problem had to be explained anew every call. After they admitted the board was bad, they failed to warn us of their shipping deadline for replacing the board (which they will do, and with an E. Coast vendor and them in CA was necessary).
All the boards failed to see the ZCR cards. First tech said that couldn't be happening, second knew about the problem and said the "E" BIOS fixed it. It didn't. We delivered servers with drives unmirrored.
Site setup was busy for a while. When I finally had a chance to work on ZCR problem, Tyan could find no record of the problem (none of the emails we exchanged except ones I sent had case #s in the header). I explained everything again, and once again had to assure them again that we'd gotten the obvious stuff right. First tech said he didn't know how it could be happening, and thought I was missing something. Got email next day from supervisor acknowledging there was a problem and saying (again) they had a new BIOS out that would fix the problem. Downloaded, sent tech onsite to install. Didn't work, same result- ZCR card option grayed out in BIOS, system hangs. When I had a chance to go down and work on it personally, once again, no record of case. I went through everything from scratch once more, assuring them that yes, we'd read the FAQs and yes, the system was plugged in, and yes, we had tried every possible combination of their two blasted relevant jumpers, and that in fact there were about eight other germane parameters we had tried which none of them had thought of- and all of this while wasting valuable onsite time. When I finally convinced them that 1) we were competent and 2) it wasn't working, I was told I'd get a call back "shortly" from the responsible engineer. Three hours later, in a darkened factory, at 5:14:55 just as I was leaving, I got a call back from the engineer who actually knew what was going on. He finally admitted we had everything right. He had no solution, but agreed with my suggestion for testing and said he'd check- he lacked authority(!)- to see if management would authorize the replacement board I'd been asking for. And they did, but there shouldn't have been any question.
Next trip down I replaced the board in one server, picking the server in whichhe Gigabit Ethernet ports had failed- and it still didn't #$%^& work. Tyan said it had been working the day before for them with a 2010S ZCR card, and until today, I didn't know whether they were lying or not. I cussed some and ordered $1200 worth of controllers to replace what Tyan couldn't get right 5 months after the product's release.
Today I checked and saw that they have a new BIOS for the board available that "Fixes PCI ZCR card hangs system during POST". It's the third BIOS for which they've made that claim, and you know, it really doesn't matter whether they're right this time or not. And if they're not, it doesn't matter whether they're just mistaken or actually lying- theend result is the same.
We saw five of their high-end server boards. One DOA, one in-service failure, all five with a major design flaw. Eight years is enough time to take care of company-wide failures. Any company that will release a $500 server board with a 40% failure rate, and without first ensuring that everything on it actually works, and who then can't tell for five months whether or not they've fixed the resulting problems, and whose tech support is staffed with folks who can't deal those problems- well, that's a company whose products you want to steer very clear of.