Conclusion
First, let's get this out of the way: even the cheapest of these units is relatively expensive. The Soltek runs at least $250 and the Shuttle SN95G5 runs about $280. You can buy a reasonable ATX case, power supply, and 939 motherboard for about $200, and less if you're willing to cut costs on the case and PSU. As we have said before, SFF targets a different mindset than the typical computing enthusiast. Many of you probably understand this well already, but when you consider the cost of furnishing the typical home or apartment and the considerations given to making the place look attractive, spending an extra $100 or even $300 on a stylish case is going to be a pittance. You also get S/PDIF Out and Firewire on every one of the units reviewed here, which means (comparing it to the ATX world) that you would need one of the nicer $110+ motherboards at the very least. Also worth mentioning is that the loudest of these systems is still quieter than your typical ATX setup unless you've spent some effort on creating a quiet system. Yes, they're expensive. No, it doesn't mean that they're a bad purchase; it's simply a matter of differing priorities.We've already awarded the SN25P our Silver Editor's Choice award back when we first looked at it. That award was actually given with the knowledge of how several of these other systems performed, and it still stands (more or less). If you're looking for an all-around good performer, the SN25P packs features, performance, and overclocking support into an attractive design. The 24-bit VIA Envy sound also comes out of this roundup as the clear winner; it may not be "HD Azalia," but it's close enough, since it sounds better than a couple of the HD solutions that we've encountered. (Using digital out would of course eliminate the static on all of these systems.) Despite the complaints and concerns that we've listed earlier, the SN25P remains a very good SFF platform. Assuming Shuttle can get the X2 support fixed soon, the SN25P remains our pick of the 939 units. If you want to purchase an X2 processor right now, we'd downgrade the SN25P to an "Honorable Mention" until that is addressed, but the overclocking support, design, and features keep the SN25P at the head of the pack.
If you're looking for something a little smaller, the SN95G5 is still a great case. Had we reviewed the SN95G5 at launch, it would have almost certainly received an Editor's Choice award. Due to its age and somewhat outdated graphics port, we'll simply give it an Honorable Mention in this roundup. The follow-up ST20G5 seems like a logical successor to the G5 legacy at first glance, but a number of concerns prevent it from being the true successor. Overclocking support is the big problem, and while you may never overclock, the ability to run stably at overclocked speeds is often an indication of overall quality.
The rest of the systems in this roundup are all very good in different ways. Depending on what you want to do with your computer, the ST20G5 is a hit-or-miss proposition. You can purchase the nearly-identical SN95G5 and a higher performing Radeon 9600 Pro for about the same price as the ST20G5. If you don't need graphics performance at all, you could even get a cheap $40 AGP card with the SN95G5. The ST20G5 does offer multi-monitor support for up to four displays with an ATI card, and you get the newer and better PCI Express interface, but we're still not sold on the concept. The ST20G5 includes decent quality integrated graphics, but the high price and complete lack of (useable) overclocking capabilities are a definite penalty. Some might prefer the silver exterior of the ST20G5, and if so, it's not a bad system by any means. If you want an SFF that can run three or four displays, the ST20G5 is also worth consideration.
In direct comparison with the other models, the Soltek 3901P doesn't do all that well. It isn't ever at the back of the pack, but it also fails to excel in most areas. The saving grace is its low price. If you're willing to deal with the higher noise levels - or perhaps, mod the case to eliminate the major sources of noise - and if you can actually find the 3901 model that you want in stock, then some will still be happy with what it offers. Performance and expansion options are good, and it's the only case that can have two 5.25" drives installed. Some people would probably prefer to save $20 rather than get the backpack, but it can be useful.
Finally, we have the Biostar 330P, which is one of the cooler cases in regards to looks and expansion options, but falls short in noise levels and has some rough edges. Future BIOS updates ought to be able to help some items, and we'd really like to see the BIOS take over fan control so that we can get rid of the System Control software. That should help smooth out performance, but the noise levels and periodic instabilities may not get any better without a slight redesign of the interior. It generally works well and some will want it simply for the outward appearance. For now, though, we'd give the SN25P the edge over the 330P. Our wish list for Biostar is to make sure that the 330P can handle everything up through the 7800GTX and FX-57/X2 4800+, as well as clean up the cabling by changing power supplies. That would put it on the same level as the SN25P, but it's not there yet.
A pertinent question to ask yourself is whether you want AGP or PCIe graphics. If you already own an AGP card and you're looking at changing over to a SFF, but keeping your current graphics card, the SN95G5 is still a great design. If you're planning on building a new system from scratch, we'd definitely recommend going with a PCI Express setup. The ST20G5, SN25P and 330P are all viable PCIe 939 systems, and while we give the current round to the Shuttle SN25P, the other two are still worthy contenders. We're still waiting for a "perfect" 939 SFF case, however.
What would make a perfect 939 SFF? Actually, it's always a matter of balancing compromises, and the SN25P comes very close to being a perfect larger SFF. Something that we would really like to see with some of the larger units like the 330P, SN25P and 3901-300P would be the inclusion of a couple more RAM slots, but they have stuck with the traditional two DIMM slots typical of SFFs. Stability, low noise, ease of use, appearance, and features are all important aspects, and the SN25P comes very close in most of those areas. If it had four DIMM slots and the X2 support is corrected, we'd probably give it a Gold Editor's Choice. On the other hand, we also think that there will be some customers who prefer a smaller case like the G5, but they want an NVIDIA chipset and overclocking functionality along with PCIe graphics. A smaller design using the nForce4 Ultra chipset would probably win the hearts of the SN95G5 owners looking for an upgrade, as the ST20G5 isn't going to please everyone.
Going Forward
Next up for our Small Form Factor reviews: the socket 775 platform. Some newer designs using the 945/955 chipsets from Intel are coming out, and if you're going to go with a 775 platform at this point in time, we definitely recommend those over the older models. Still, there are a few creative designs that we have in our labs, so if you're more interested in an exotic-looking SFF rather than something performance-oriented, we'll be covering the segment in the near future. This will be our last full SFF roundup for a while, as it's more prudent to simply start reviewing other SFFs as quickly as possible rather than trying to write a single monolithic article. We'll be publishing socket 775 SFF reviews as well as some other SFF articles in a timelier manner going forward.As we've noted, this is really part one of the 939 SFF reviews. We will be running some additional tests on these units in the near future, including testing with dual core processors and 90nm Venice chips. Note that our current batch of SFF tests likely wouldn't have even uncovered the USB2.0 problem with the SN25P, so we'll be adding a new test looking into Firewire and USB2.0 capabilities in future reviews (including the X2 support update that we have planned). We will also try to get a 7800GTX card to test the ability of the units to support the fastest single slot PCIe card available - our guess is that at least one of the PCIe capable units is going to have problems.
If you have any additional tests that you'd like performed, please let us know. As you may have noticed, there is also a ton of information to cover in this roundup, and while we tried to be thorough, we're sure to have forgotten a few items that may interest you. If you have any questions, please feel free to post a comment or send an email and we'll be happy to respond. Also, if there are any specific SFF systems that you'd like reviewed, let me know. I can prioritize the order of reviews if there's a demand for information on a specific unit, and I do have a decent selection waiting for review.
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JarredWalton - Thursday, October 27, 2005 - link
Hopefully, anyone interested in the "promised" part 2 will find this post. I'm thinking of forgetting part 2 - I just have too much stuff to do! I've run some X2 benches/tests and can tell you this.The 330P, EQ3901-300P, SN25P, and ST20G5 all worked flawlessly with dual core - once the BIOS was updated. That last part is important, so let me elaborate.
For the 330P and ST20G5, the system WOULD NOT work with the BIOS I had (i.e. POST failed or complete system instability in the case of the 330P), so I had to switch back to a single core, update the BIOS, and then it worked. The 330P at first seemed to work, but I got frequent crashes and I couldn't even flash the BIOS with the X2 installed. If you have an extra 939 CPU, you should be fine; if you don't... well, I don't know if current 330Ps or ST20G5s are shipping with the latest BIOS or not, but I doubt it. (Ask Biostar/Shuttle for more information, I would suggest.)
Notably absent from the above list of X2 supported SFFs is the SN95G5v1/v2. I have v2, and it won't get past POST with an X2 processor. V3 will apparently work, but why buy an older AGP SFF these days? The Soltek worked fine, the SN25P was probably the best fit for the X2 plus a faster GPU, but the 330P was a lot more stable with the latest BIOS update. (The BIOS seemed to address several of the stability issues I had initially.) As far as I can tell, the USB + X2 issues of the SN25P have been resolved - I couldn't get any problems to occur, but then I may not be using the "right" USB device to cause a crash.
My pick overall remains with the SN25P. I successfully overclocked an X2 3800+ to 2.70 GHz in that system, where I could only reach 2.50 GHz in the 330P and 3901. Temperatures were a little lower than the 330P, cooling is better, but the system is larger. I'd say the 330P is now second overall in the recommendation list, and it does look pretty nice. The AGP units are not worth purchasing unless you can get them really cheap.
As nice as I think the ST20G5 looks, I feel the chipset used is complete garbage. Later ATI Xpress 200 chipsets (like the Crossfire stuff) are apparently much better, but the early Xpress 200 is at best equal to the like of ALi/ULi and SiS. Even VIA would be better (outside of integrated graphics performance) than the original Xpress 200. Overclocking remains essentially non-existent, and the smaller PSU (240W) will struggle with an X2 plus faster GPU. There's no way I would recommend spending $350 on the ST20G5.
Jarred Walton
SFF and Guide Editor
AnandTech.com
P.S. I'm skipping the 775 roundup as well, and will be moving on to later 775 systems for review. Basically, all of the 915/925 SFFs are outdated by the Pentium D, so there's no reason to purchase one (in my opinion). If you really want some brief thoughts on a specific 775 SFF, email me and I'll let you know. I have looked at several of the units, but putting together a 25000 word article on outdated hardware doesn't seem like a good use of time.
highlandsun - Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - link
Thanks for following up here, I just found this roundup while googling for ST20G5 reviews. My brother has an SN95G5v2 and we spent several hours one night trying to make it behave after updating to the latest BIOS. After the update Windows no longer saw his Logitech wireless trackball (but Linux still saw it just fine) plugged into the PS/2 port. We had to go back to the original BIOS that the thing shipped with. Unfortunately the original version doesn't support Cool'n'Quiet on the Winchester or Venice 3000+ that we plugged in (we had one of each), which was why we went looking for the BIOS upgrade in the first place.Anyway, he's using the SN95 for an HTPC, and I got interested in going the same route. But I was looking at the ST20 instead. The SN25P isn't a viable option because we're using Fusion HDTV tuner cards, and they're PCI only, no PCI-E version yet. I couldn't care less about AGP vs PCI-E for video in this case, as it's all overkill for simple media streaming. (The only key feature is making sure the video card supports DxVA for DVICO's MPEG decoder to work well.) But now it seems that none of Shuttle's current offerings are really suitable, since the ST20 really is too flawed in other areas.
Has anyone ever gotten an answer from Shuttle about why they would go to the trouble of using the Nforce3 Ultra but not using its integrated Gbit LAN??
dlevens - Sunday, September 4, 2005 - link
It would be nice to see a section on customer support. I have been extremely disapointed in Shuttle support for these SFF systems. I started with the SV25 and about 10 cubes later I am running the sn25p. I have to say I hate this thing. Also surprised to see there was no mention of some major issues with stability due to cheap or faulty sata cables. There are a ton of posts on sudhian about issues related to the sata cables. Curious if Anandtech saw any of these issues? http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.aspx?catid=4...">http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.a...amp;thre...Although, I would expect shuttle would send a well tested machine for a review site.
I also had a miserable time finding the most stable way to build the sn25p as far as drivers. Still not sure I have it right. This would be a great section to add in a review. I made a post here reguarding driver issues.
http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.aspx?catid=4...">http://forums.sudhian.com/messageview.a...amp;thre...
One of my biggest complaints about the sn25p is sound. Was shocked to see the Via envy praised so much in the review. Maybe this is part of the driver issues I am having or could be the game I am currently playing, but sound is breaking up constantly on this thing. I have tried both drivers from VIA and both from shuttle. Anyone else playing Warlords IV on an sn25p and able to get your sound to work? I play warlords IV and run skype in the background for voice. Sound is garbled and breaks up.
Still looking for shuttle to be unseated in the sff market, would be nice to find some quality and stability to match the high price we pay for these sff systems. And a company who stands behind their product with great support would be icing on that cake.
Dennis
JarredWalton - Thursday, October 27, 2005 - link
Hey Dennis - I don't know if you'll see this, but I'll add it for others that might look. I obviously can't play all the games out there with each unit, so all I know is that the SN25P and the Via Envy did great on the tests I ran. The sound was also completely free of static, which is not the case for several of the others. The lack of static was far more important to me than other aspects of the sound system.Anyway, I didn't run into driver issues or SATA issues. I don't know if I just got lucky or what. I did a clean install of XP SP2, then I used the included CD to get sound and networking. I then downloaded the latest nF4 chipset drivers, along with graphics drivers for the ATI card I used, and I grabbed all the updates from Windows Update. Everything seemed to run fine.
artifex - Monday, August 22, 2005 - link
I think it'd be fun to compare these to Iwill's ZMAXdp, which is a dual-Opteron SFF. Not dual core, but dual processor. SFFTech says it's using nForce3 Pro as the chipset. It's also amazingly expensive, and has a silly little fin antenna :)JarredWalton - Thursday, August 25, 2005 - link
Iwill declined to send the current ZMAXdp when I emailed them, but they're working on an updated version for the future, so we'll see.Zak - Monday, August 15, 2005 - link
Frankly, each one of them has one single fault, just one, that makes, otherwise perfect box, useless for me... Some have the card readers up front that spoil the looks and I don't need them, some have no SPDIF out, some have 4 pin FireWire connectors, some are butt-ugly, some have on-board video. They'd be perfect otherwise if not for those single small problems. I haven't found a small factor case yet that would be perfect for me. So I'm sticking to towers for now.Zak
jopa25 - Saturday, August 13, 2005 - link
Hi, congratulations and thanks for that great review, in the first placeI'd have a little question about the the measurement of the noise levels of these SFF, is there any differences in the way noise was measured in relation with the former roundup (478/754 SFF roundup) ?
I expected the newer models to be quieter without GPU fan than the 478/754 SFF. However, according to the measurements, at 12 inches far, 4 out of the 5 478/754 SFF reviewed remained below 30dB, while the new models keep in a range from 37 to 46 dB in the same test. Quite a significant difference, isn't it?
As a part of an explanation, I guess the processor used in the last roundup (AMD Athlon 64 3800+ with Newcastle core) is not exactly wonderful at power saving, but should not be far from the Intel Pentium 4 3.0 used in the other roundup anyway.
So, the question is: Is there any reasonable explanation for these high levels of noise with fanless GPU, in comparison with those from the 478/754 roundup?
JarredWalton - Saturday, August 13, 2005 - link
I'm not entirely sure why the noise levels were higher. Part of it may be due to the time of year (winter vs. summer). The room that the systems were in was probably closer to 65 F for the last roundup, whereas I'd say close to 75 F for the current roundup. A 10 degree difference in room temperature would have a substantial impact, unfortunately. (If you compare the SN25P results to the March testing, it was substantially louder during stress testing.)I may not have measured in the exact same location relative to the last SFF roundup. I think I measured the socket 478 units from the front, which may have impacted things, and I moved some desks around which could have impacted scores as well. The rear of the SFFs are now closer to a wall than the old location, so noise reflecting off the wall might be changing the readings a bit.
I tried to be consistent with all the units in the roundup, but the use of differing CPUs makes it hard to say how they compare with the older models. I would say, however, that in typical use only the G5 units were at the same level as the last roundup. The 330P idled very low, but stress tests made it quite a bit louder. The SN25P and EQ3901 are both clearly louder than everything but the e-bot, which is roughly on the same level in terms of noise.
WooDaddy - Friday, August 12, 2005 - link
Jarod,GREAT Article. For quite some time I wanted to see a review with the SN25 and ST20 together. In the meantime, I bought a Mac Mini (quit screaming "traitor"). Out of curiousity, do you or anyone know the rated noise levels of the mini? It's dead quiet even at full CPU.
For you LGA775 SFF round-up, please don't forget to consider the Trigem Kloss PC (www.klosspc.com available at ZZF). Personally, it's the best looking SFF I've seen (better than the ASUS Spressos). I've been desperately looking for a review on that badboy.
Thanks