AVADirect Clevo P170EM: Has AMD’s HD 7970M Got Game?
by Jarred Walton on October 2, 2012 1:35 PM ESTConclusion Part 1 – HD 7970M: It’s Getting Better
There are two items to discuss with this review, and I’ll start with AMD’s HD 7970M dGPU, with Enduro Technology. If I had just run with the initial impressions of the P170EM and HD 7970M without contacting AMD, my overall impression of the notebook would have been substantially worse. Buying a gaming notebook—which is the only reason I can see to purchase a notebook with an HD 7970M—and not being able to get regular graphics driver updates from the GPU manufacturer is a complete waste of time and money. I know quite a few people actually made that mistake, and for them all I can do is say that I can feel their pain—and I wrote about this last year and tried to warn people away from a then-broken Enduro/Dynamic Switchable Graphics/PowerXpress.
I understand the desire to support the underdogs of computer technology, and right now AMD’s mobile GPUs are definitely underdogs to NVIDIA’s Optimus enabled GPUs—not because they perform poorly, but without drivers you can pretty much guarantee there will be compatibility issues with future games. NVIDIA has been shipping Optimus GPUs for over 2.5 years now, and since May 2010 they’ve been delivering simultaneous driver updates for their entire product stack (except for their pre-Optimus switchable graphics solutions). AMD hasn’t had public reference drivers for their switchable graphics solutions or Enduro, and they’re only just now starting to address that problem. Even worse, the HD 7970M with Enduro enabled clearly has some performance issues—it’s really bad when NVIDIA’s previous generation GTX 580M/675M is often able to outperform the HD 7970M Enduro!
The good news is that AMD is actively working to address the driver and performance problems, and if they get all their ducks in a row we hopefully won’t see future problems with Enduro equipped notebooks. I would have liked to see this happen last year, but better late than never I suppose. As you can see from our testing, the upcoming Hotfix driver takes the HD 7970M from being way behind NVIDIA’s GTX 680M to only being 10-20% slower on average, and in some cases AMD is able to take a small lead. NVIDIA maintains the overall performance crown, but only with a substantially higher priced card (though I get the feeling they could easily drop prices if they felt more pressure from AMD). If you’re looking for a better value (which seems a dubious proposition on a $2000+ notebook, but I digress…), the HD 7970M will generally shave $300-$400 off the price of the P170EM compared to the GTX 680M, all while delivering around 85% of the performance. So you basically save 12% and lose about the same amount of performance.
There’s more to it than performance of course, and if I were in the market for a top-tier gaming notebook right now I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase a GTX 680M—either in the P170EM or in Alienware’s M17x R4—over the HD 7970M. As we said, AMD is working to address the problems with regular GPU driver updates as well as graphics performance, but they’re not finished yet. Besides, when you’re spending this much money, wouldn’t you want the fastest GPU? Within reason of course—I’m not at all a fan of SLI or CrossFire in notebooks, mostly because drivers, heat, and other wonkiness just get that much worse when you’re running two GPUs. Plus NVIDIA still has their PhysX card to play, and with Batman: Arkham City and Borderlands 2 both utilizing the technology to good effect, I like having that option available.
We’ll have more to say on the GPU side of things when we finish with part two where we look at the P170EM with a GTX 680M, but for now we’ll just say that AMD needs more time to prove that their Enduro drivers are ready and available for public consumption before we’ll recommend taking the plunge. Hopefully they’ll continue to improve things and by the end of the year, we may no longer need to worry about driver updates and can simply look at the performance and features offered by the various mobile GPUs.
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extide - Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - link
I am fairly sure it is a single link DVI, not Dual Link. Did you actually test a 2560 res screen on the DVI port?JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - link
Argh! Why, Clevo, WHY!? They supported dual-link DVI for so long, and it's literally a cost savings of pennies these days. But you're right: it's single-link only (my 30" LCD only allows 1280x800 when connected). Consider me flogged, and I've updated the text.Freakie - Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - link
Really? That sure does look like a DVI-I Dual Link connector on the back though, which means it *should* pinned for Dual-Link, right?. Do you think that it might be a driver issue with AMD?Freakie - Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - link
Nevermind, just looked at the specs on Sager's version and yeah, DVI-I Single Link... man does that suck some serious balls.Penti - Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - link
At least it has DisplayPort, but it only makes me view these gaming notebooks in even worse light. DP is fine and should be brought forward as the connector for high-res screens but then why keep a DVI? Does it support dual screens? Then why not two DPs and ship a passive DP>VGA/DVI adaptor and an HDMI-adaptor with the kit. Use DP everywhere or keep your DVI-DL I say. Most people doesn't really think about the connectivity but with the amount of people with 27 and 30-inch monitors around it should be a bigger issue and you shouldn't have to buy high-end or business class stuff to get the possibility to use DP or DVI-DL as it is now, consumer stuff generally doesn't have it.Roland00Address - Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - link
That makes me pretty angry why would you be so stupid with cost cutting.mczak - Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - link
FWIW that's not really Clevo's problem but intel's. intel's chipset do simply not support dual-link dvi (the only way to get higher than 1920x1200 resolution with them is with DisplayPort), so with Enduro (and Optimus for that matter) when displays are always connected to the IGP it simply can't work.Well there would be some possible solutions to that problem but neither one is great:
1) connect dvi directly to discrete gpu. This means whenever you want to use external monitor you'll need to switch to the discrete gpu. I know in the past some notebooks were wired like that, but I believe this is incompatible with enduro/optimus (in theory it should be possible to only use the copy-to-igp approach for one display but not for all but probably not in practice), hence you'd also need muxes for switching all other displays.
2) the notebook could use additional dual-link tmds chip. intel's chipset still support svdo, and it should be possible to add a dual-link capabable svdo to dvi converter chip. But costs will be higher than a few pennies.
I don't know about notebooks but I've not seen a single desktop motherboard with 60- or 70-series intel chipset doing that - you NEED displayport for higher resolution (and unfortunately most budget motherboards skip DP).
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - link
Oh, true! I didn't even think about that aspect. It's silly that Intel supports higher resolutions with DP than with DVI, though.mczak - Wednesday, October 3, 2012 - link
Well I'm not sure it's totally silly. Don't forget AMD is heading in the same direction - apparently dual-link tmds transmitters don't come for free, every AMD gpu (since Northern Islands) only supports one dual-link dvi port even if they still support otherwise simultaneous use of two dvi/hdmi ports - you've got two high res monitors (at least) one is going to use DP.Near all monitors (save some Korean imports) supporting such resolutions though support DP however nowadays, so it isn't that bad as long as you've got a DP port on the graphic card side (and my advice would be to stay far away from high res monitors not featuring DP - too bad though if you already have such a monitor since certainly earlier models did not support DP).
crfog - Tuesday, October 2, 2012 - link
First off: I'm a Clevo P170EM owner.Though I don't have time to read the entire article right now, I got as far as the keyboard review and saw some errors regarding the back-lighting. If you look to the top right hand corner of the numpad, you'll see four keys with odd secondary symbols on them. Pressing the Fn key plus these will get you the following: either quick access to the back-lighting settings (which, unfortunately as an application doesn't seem to have an easy way to close), an on-off setting (much easier than setting the colour to black as you stated), and brightness settings.
Hopefully, I'll have time to read the rest of the article tonight.