AMD 780G A12/A13 Stepping Update, GF8200, and More...
by Gary Key on March 27, 2008 12:00 PM EST- Posted in
- Gary's First Looks
AMD 780G stepping A12 update
There have been a lot of rumors circulating in various Internet forums about the current A12 stepping of the AMD 780G chipset and if it will work properly with the upcoming Phenom 9150e/9100e processors. The controversy centers on a earlier story that the 780G would only operate in HT 2.0 modes instead of the native HT 3.0 mode when a Phenom 9150e or 9100e is installed.
This statement is partially true. Installing either processor will cause current A12 boards to downclock to HT 2.0 at 1GHz speeds. While this is not a preferred setting, considering how well the HD3200 (RV610+) integrated graphics engine responds to HT 3.0, it is not the end of the world. The user can simply go into the BIOS, manually set HT speed to 1.6GHz, and the 9150e/9100e will operate in HT 3.0 mode. Not an elegant solution, but one that works fine with current 780G boards. The upcoming A13 revision will automatically switch to HT 3.0 at 1.6GHz. Boards featuring this update are expected in late May, until then, spending a minute or two in the BIOS will enable HT 3.0 capability with these new processors.
NVIDIA GeForce 8200 update
While on the subject of new IGP solutions, the NVIDIA GeForce 8200 has been enjoying a roller coaster ride regarding release dates and availability. The chipset was officially announced in January with expected availability in the March time period. We were able to snag a couple of ASUS M3N78-EMH HDMI boards last month for review purposes. We did provide a brief look at HD playback and image quality results, but we are currently in a waiting pattern for full performance results. The reason for the delay is WHQL drivers and final BIOS code. Both of which are not due for a couple of more weeks at best. We expect another driver update shortly for beta testing and then a final driver release.
In fact, it appears that April 29th will be the date for a final driver release and also happens to be the new launch date for the 780a. The current BIOS from ASUS (222) and beta driver release (173.68) results in very good performance and stability from the board, but according to NVIDIA will not be indicative of the board's true capabilities. How much performance that can be gained is anyone's guess at this point, but NVIDIA is fairly adamant that we wait for final drivers before reviewing the chipset. We have been debating whether to wait or not since the board is starting to show up in Europe and APAC.
Our current inclination is to show power consumption, updated HD video results, and maybe a few select "preview" results in our massive 780G roundup next week. We feel the current BIOS, board design, and beta drivers are solid enough to provide a glimpse at the board's general capabilities. However, we do not feel like it would be fair to NVIDIA or ASUS to provide Hybrid SLI, overclocking, or Phenom results until final drivers and BIOS code are available in April. We would like to know your thoughts on this subject as we finalize our roundup.
Speaking of roundups
The 780G roundup has turned into a marathon of love or maybe just a crazy scientist experiment gone awry. We decided in the beginning to focus on providing the standard benchmark results across a variety of applications for the chipset itself and following up with individual board reviews (Editor - That would have been wise and safe). Our 780G chipset preview and image quality analysis generated so many questions from the HTPC audience that we took a 90 degree turn and decided to provide additional results for this market. We probably will not answer all of the questions posed immediately, but rest assured we will have in-depth features and additional test results in the coming weeks for these avid users.
Right before the chipset preview, we received the final 8.3 drivers and a layout of what will be in the 8.4/8.5 releases. The final 8.3 drivers greatly improved Hybrid CrossFire performance/compatibility to the point we decided to run additional gaming tests to answer questions about IGP versus Discrete versus Hybrid CF performance. These results are enough to warrant a separate article if needed. We decided to take a different path with these boards and have generated benchmarks for the simulation crowd in Race07 and Flight Simulator X along with a couple of other games that most would place in the "casual" gaming category. A category that seems to be where mass market PC games are headed now. This in an important fact since we finally have a IGP solution that provides a decent experience in these games, especially when paired with a $50 HD3450 card in Hybrid CF.
A couple of the board manufacturers tossed in features that also warranted additional testing. J&W provided their lab favorite JW-RS780UVD-AM2+ board that features 64MB of Side-port memory and we found out quickly that it does make a difference in performance. ASRock provided their A780FullDisplayPort (gotta love the naming convention) that features our first motherboard with Display Port 1.1 output capabilities. The only problem is that we are pacing the hallways right now waiting on FedEx to deliver our first Display Port capable monitor to provide test results.
With all that said, we will have our first article up in the next day or so providing answers along with additional HD playback results utilizing Quad Cores. The middle of next week will see the review of several 780G boards with a concentration on general performance, features, and individual board analysis with a featurette on Hybrid CrossFire. In the meantime, Raja and Kris are finalizing mini-round ups with the X38/X48/790i/780i/750i/650i chipsets that will be published throughout April. At the end of April, we will have the NVIDIA 780a/GeForce 8200 release and details on the new Intel P45 and G45 chipsets. That is not all and we will go over what's next this weekend....
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PokerGuy - Friday, March 28, 2008 - link
I've looked at several previews and reviews of 780G chipset based boards, and I haven't seen a definitive answer on this: does the 780G chipset support component output (hd) using a port or header/bracket setup? I know most TV's out there have other inputs now, but there are still folks who have a big HDTV with just component inputs......Visual - Friday, March 28, 2008 - link
Iamezza, sideport memory is simply video-ram for the on-board graphics.Anand, I would prefer if you would just boycott the displayport board/monitor :p We don't need it... if they would just make HDMI work right.
Speaking of which, do you think it is possible that these boards, or future boards with the same chipset, can be fixed to support 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM audio over the HDMI port? Could you perhaps give more details about why it doesn't work right now? Certainly bandwidth is not an issue, even the original HDMI 1.0 spec supports 8 channels easily...
And something else I am wondering - with the tons of different audio ports on motherboards these days, why can't they each function simultaneously and independently? They should be visible just as separate audio-out devices, so you can play a different thing on the normal analog outputs on the back of your case, on the headphone output at the front, on the coax and optical S/PDIF, and on the HDMI port... it wouldn't rise the manufacturing costs too much, so why no manufacturer has done this?
Guuts - Friday, March 28, 2008 - link
Probably doesn't matter to most at this point, but what ever happened to the P35 roundup?(My apologies if I've somehow missed it)
deruberhanyok - Wednesday, April 2, 2008 - link
You're not alone, I've wondered the same thing, though I figure it's not coming by now.iamezza - Friday, March 28, 2008 - link
What is the 64MB of Sideport memory for?derek85 - Friday, March 28, 2008 - link
It's an onboard memory used to interleave with UMA memory and offer increased bandwidth. It will help icnreasing performance quite a bit in IGP-only scenario and maybe equally helpful when using Hybrid Crossfire.crabnebula - Thursday, March 27, 2008 - link
In response to your question Gary, I feel it would be fair to provide all of the results you've already compiled, as long as they are accompanied by the appropriate disclaimers. I believe your readers will be wise enough to understand the significance of preliminary BIOS & drivers and judge the results accordingly. Given that plus the fact that these boards are already available for purchase in some countries, I see no reason to withhold any results you have -- though I would certainly wait before investing time in any further extensive testing.Thanks for the update and the great work.
Regards.
chucky2 - Sunday, March 30, 2008 - link
My view would be this:If nVidia is providing retail silicon with BIOS and drivers to board manufacturers and telling them it's OK to go ahead and release these to the general public, and that has indeed been done, then the 8200 results should be put up with no clarification on Beta or not. And the reason I take this stance is that if they are comfortable enough for the public to wade through product bugs just so they can sell their product, then they can d@mn sure be comfortable enough to take the review hit in terms of performance and stability notes from you.
If nVidia is providing retail silicon with BIOS and drivers to board manufacturers but telling them to hold off on shipping until final BIOS and drivers can be provided, and the board manufactuers are ignoring that...or if you just have beta boards that are not for the public...then you should release the results but plaster Beta all over them, and make a note that performance and stability may improve remarkably by the time final BIOS and drivers are received.
And, even though this is a desktop review, it would be cool if you could get a comment from AMD and nVidia on just when we can expect to see the 780 and 8200 lineup in notebooks/tablets, as with these new chipset lineups, we're finally going to be able to get mobil solutions that don't suck like Intel 845/865/etc.
Chuck