Oh it was a typo? I was so happy to see that. So what's the correct boost speed? I'm also curious about the price. Is it actually not more expensive than other i7 models?
Fist time I read about the AVX Offset feature.. pretty cool and I'm looking forward to benchmarks playing with it. I wonder what AMDs chips will do with regards to that, I can only assume they have similar thermal issues with those instruction sets.
The performance improvement from Skylake is minimal. If Skylake wasn't enough to upgrade, then Kaby lake won't be either. If you have a 2600K, especially overclocked, then you are better off buying other improvements - such as SSDs or better video cards, which you can still take along whenever you do upgrade.
My personal upgrade strategy over the last 20 years was to upgrade whenever I could double my performance at the same price. I can still do this with video cards, but not with cpus.
But yeah, I'm actually pretty excited for KL in laptops. YouTube is pushing VP9 really hard and I'm curious what the Iris+ 650 will be able to do. No miracles for sure, but coming from a Haswell U-Series chip, the time's finally ripe for an upgrade.
Yeah, that exactly what I've been doing. A 1TB 850 Evo, Windows 10 and a GTX1060 made the 2600 completely relevant again. I'm actually still feeling the limit of the GPU, volumetric lighting in Fallout 4 is too much for the 1060.
even as some specific benchmarks show 20% to 30% improvements over 2600k, when I look at gaming I loose all interest to upgrade. my computer is either idle (browsing or light use) or is gaming. to 90% of users with a "generic" profile, there is hardly any reason to leave a Sandy-bridge computer.
of course, ultra-thin notebooks and other low-power equipments can put the newer cpus to good use. but wherever a 2600k can already fit, there is no reason to change it. I am keeping my 2500k for yet another cycle here... (maybe this is the result of a lack of competition for some years???)
@Ian, if possible please include a comparison of a 2500k or 2600k Sandy at 4Ghz vs the newer 7600 or 7700 processors. if this is possible of course.
On the final page it says, "At the end of the day, the Core i7-7700K... has a tray price of $305. This means it will probably reach shelves around $330-$350, and we haven’t heard about a new stock cooler so it will probably come without one."
So $305 is the tray price and retail will be $330-$350.
> I highly suspect that the Xeon CPUs will be announced later in Q1, given that the target market for these is a little different to standard desktop processors.
I hope in the chipset review piece you're doing later, you address what future CPU's will be supported under series 200 socket 1151 motherboards. For example, is Intel committing to Coffee Lake support on these boards? Cannonlake? I.e. How much longevity are we going to get with these boards? Same same on the Xeon boards front for it's chipset.
I'm thinking the longevity will be very short. Z270 is to Z170 ... just as ... Z97 was to Z87. Intel's 10 nm processors will probably introduce a new socket.
If Z270 really is like Z97, that will be a complete joke.
I'm starting to wonder if the physical limits have basically been reached, and we're slowly (whether by Corp design or physics, or, some of both), just hitting the wall and this is essentially it.
I would say that silicon is hitting its physical limit as we can see with the yields. But that doesn't mean that we won't see some different exotic compounds taking its place.
Any idea why 7820HK, 7280HQ and 7700HQ are the same msrp $340? Who in the right mind will choose 7700HQ when the HK is clearly better at the same prices.
The mobile prices don't make much sense, as in the previous generations. If there were no further discounts for the slower models, OEMs wouldn't use them at all.
That thing Intel does is becoming a problem. As usual, the trouble lies with all the software. OSes are having trouble keeping up with all those minor tweaks (both Windows and Linux.) The worst part is that at the end of the day, with all that effort of wring new power management drivers, there is not much to show for it...
Are you talking about Speed Shift v2? If so: did you miss the part about it requiring no new drivers? If not: I have no idea what you're complaining about. Is it that Linux and OSX don't have Speed Shift drivers yet? In that case Intel should never introduce any new features...
The i3 7350K looks like a trolling joke. $157 for 4.2GHz? And how high can it go? 4.8GHz? Wow! 14% improvement. What would have been nice, would have been an unlocked 7100 at $110.
Display resolution support is a disgrace. Year 2017 and they are stil stuck with dp1.2. World needs to move on. Should have moved on already long time ago so that we could actually use the high-dpi displays in bigger then 24" sizes.
So now the question is how how low does AMD go with quad Zen.
From a cost perspective they can go to 49$ and up -they need to address the budget market and a quad CPU or a dual core APU are about the same area. From a business perspective it would be better for quad Zen to start at 99$ and they would still make a killing.
Every segment they don't cover (and they don't have Zen APUs yet) is business left on the table - the budget segment is big enough and in regions they care about.
Maybe they should go to 49$ with quads and disable HT, some cache but it is likely that if they don't do that, most would make an effort to get the 99$ quad. Just hope they don't get too greedy and start way higher, Intel can make quads without a GPU too, won't take too long and AMD needs to exploit this window of opportunity and gain,not just revenue, but hearts and minds.
"We still have not received an official word if Intel is working closely with Apple to bring the feature to macOS, or even if it will be promoted if it ever makes the transition"
Could some more-or-less unexpected interaction between Speed Shift 2 and the rest of MacOS be the reason for the apparently random dramatic swings in the battery lifetime of the new MacBook Pros? We hardly know enough to point fingers at either Apple or Intel, but I could certainly imagine that each side has a certain mental model of what the other side is/"should" be doing, and the mismatch between those models means that the CPU is randomly being told to run at maximum speed when the OS actually wants it to dramatically slow down. I agree that this sounds kinda dumb of the surface, but I could imagine that there are enough layers between UI/framework code, the power driver, the core OS, and EFI, that something gets confused along the way including, perhaps, exposing a bug (again either on the Apple side or the Intel side) that just didn't get triggered (or at least not very often) on either previous x86 CPUs or on Linux/Windows.
My 5 year old 3930k can still basically keep up with Intel's latest and greatest with stock voltage OC. Hum... I used to buy new stuff every year, or every two years at most, because there was normally a good gain to be had. It's legit been 5 years now and my PC with a little work, in multi core tests, is just as fast as anything out there. That's pitiful on Intel's behalf. They've gotten fat and lazy and the consumer is paying for it. Trump needs to tell AMD to put the A back into their chips and actually put out some products at the high-end that actually pushes Intel to be great again.
Is it really worth saving 60 dollars to get an unlocked i3 vs the unlocked i5? I really can't see any situation where 60 dollars is the difference between being able to afford a new pc or not. With DX12 it HIGHLY benefits from having 4 cores (really 6 cores is optimum with 8 only slightly improving). Being stuck with 2 cores in this day is severely crippling your lifespan of the pc. You will waste GPU power and be constrained by the 2 cores all in the name to save 60 dollars. Nah it's not worth it.
Kaby lake in general is not worth it. Everyone with quad core sandy bridge and above is going to see very minimal gains from a quad core cpu. You really need to go to 6 cores to get any real performance increase and you also need to be playing in dx 12 mode. Your best bet is to wait for the 2019 tock of 10nm coffee lake. Intel will be moving to pci-e 4.0 which doubles the bandwidth so an 8x pci-e 4.0 is the same as a 16x pci-e 3.0. Since gpu's only lose a few percentage points of performance on 8x pci-e 3.0, 8x pci-e 4.0 will give them all the breathing room they need. This leaves you 16x lanes of the 24 lanes to use for m2 storage devices or capture cards without having to use the higher latency PCH pci-e lanes. Or with multi GPU you still have 8x cpu pci-e lanes and you only need 2x pci-e 4.0 lanes to give you 4GB/s (32gbps) so you can fit dual gpu's and 4 pci-e storage devices all connected to the cpu directly and both gpu's will get 16GB/s (128gbps) bandwidth. This gives you massive future proofing. With intel optane maturing you can go single gpu at 16x pci-e 4.0 lanes 32GB/s bandwidth (256gbps) stick an optane drive on 4x lanes giving you a massive 8GB/s (64gbps) and 2 m2 nvme ssd's on 2x lanes each 4GB/s (32gbps) each, with all devices connected directly to CPU for the lowest latency leaving all the PCH lanes free for external ports like TB3 USB 3.1 gen 2 etc.
By waiting till 2019 you get a real upgrade instead of a sidegrade. pci-e 4.0 will unlock the true potential of Intel optane as i expect by then the optane drives will be maxing out the 4x pci-e 3.0 lanes at 4GB/s and pci-e 4.0 will allow optane to really shine and most likely hit 7GB/s or more. With that kinda storage speed you can transfer an entire blu ray disc image in about 7 seconds.
Now by all means if you are still on the Q series quad cores than kaby lake is a compelling upgrade and isn't a total waste of money to upgrade. But even in that circumstance I would say try to stick it out another year so you can have a 6 core coffee lake as 6 cores is incredibly useful in dx12.
The only thing that occurs to me is game emulators. Dolphin and PCSX2 require high clock speeds and high IPC, not more cores. It's quite niche, but if you're building an emulator box then the unlocked Anniversary Edition Haswell Pentium is currently the go-to processor, the new i3 should be even better.
What applications use AVX instructions? I wonder how much it will hurt performance for some applications by decreasing AVX to 4.0ghz so you can hit 5.0ghz on everything else. The highest overclock i've seen talked about is 5.1ghz on the i7-7700k using the corsair 115i
(3) Embedded DisplayPort* (eDP) 1.4 and PSR2 under evaluation
I seriously didn't expect that! This means that they actually changed the display pipeline slightly :) Now, hopefully laptop vendors will make use of PSR2 to further improve battery life.
On a side-note: Does anyone know how to overclock the 7820HK when there's no mobile chipset that supports overclocking? Will laptop vendors have to include the Z270 desktop chipset on their platform?
Lets what ever it be! Have more physical cores is always awesome. i3 7350 can be overclocked easly to 5Ghz but it still makes no improvements for multi threaded applications. See this thread https://forums.arctotal.com/posts/91/
CPU technology has hit the wall for many reasons. See this 3 part series http://www.edn.com/design/systems-design/4368705/T... Intel integrated graphics my not feature in the gaming world but has huge power in media processing especially in 4k AVC/HEVC video editing where software encoders and decoders struggle even with 10 core cpus. Hardware encode/decode is the way to go and this gpu has lots of power. Price is a bargain for a 4 core i7-7700k that overclocks to 5ghz and a free potent gpu.
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hans_ober - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
i7-7820HK typo: boost frequency of 4.9GHzkenansadhu - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Oh it was a typo? I was so happy to see that. So what's the correct boost speed? I'm also curious about the price. Is it actually not more expensive than other i7 models?midspace - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
should be Boost of 3.9Ghzhttp://ark.intel.com/products/97464/Intel-Core-i7-...
hansmuff - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Fist time I read about the AVX Offset feature.. pretty cool and I'm looking forward to benchmarks playing with it. I wonder what AMDs chips will do with regards to that, I can only assume they have similar thermal issues with those instruction sets.ddriver - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
TICK TOCK MEHMr Perfect - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
"Calculating Generational IPC Changes from Sandy Bridge to Kaby Lake"Looking forward to this one, as I've still got an i7-2600 kicking it in my machine. Maybe we can declare Sandy Bridge dead again? ;)
kmmatney - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
The performance improvement from Skylake is minimal. If Skylake wasn't enough to upgrade, then Kaby lake won't be either. If you have a 2600K, especially overclocked, then you are better off buying other improvements - such as SSDs or better video cards, which you can still take along whenever you do upgrade.My personal upgrade strategy over the last 20 years was to upgrade whenever I could double my performance at the same price. I can still do this with video cards, but not with cpus.
Cellar Door - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
You completely missed the sarcasm in Mr Perfect's post.And as far as upgrade strategies go, it basically always comes down to what your wallet can handle and its not black and while 2x perf. increase.
EX. new VP9 hw decode - perfect for laptops, yet nowhere near 2x perf increase in all other areas.
esterhasz - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
I think that kmmatney had desktops in mind...But yeah, I'm actually pretty excited for KL in laptops. YouTube is pushing VP9 really hard and I'm curious what the Iris+ 650 will be able to do. No miracles for sure, but coming from a Haswell U-Series chip, the time's finally ripe for an upgrade.
Mr Perfect - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Yeah, that exactly what I've been doing. A 1TB 850 Evo, Windows 10 and a GTX1060 made the 2600 completely relevant again. I'm actually still feeling the limit of the GPU, volumetric lighting in Fallout 4 is too much for the 1060.Lolimaster - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
It's the same damn skylake with a more "mature" process. Before you could call that "release new models" like FX8350 and later the 8370.Calling it a new generation is laughable. Haswell refresh got the 4790K after the initial 4770K,
marc1000 - Friday, January 6, 2017 - link
even as some specific benchmarks show 20% to 30% improvements over 2600k, when I look at gaming I loose all interest to upgrade. my computer is either idle (browsing or light use) or is gaming. to 90% of users with a "generic" profile, there is hardly any reason to leave a Sandy-bridge computer.of course, ultra-thin notebooks and other low-power equipments can put the newer cpus to good use. but wherever a 2600k can already fit, there is no reason to change it. I am keeping my 2500k for yet another cycle here... (maybe this is the result of a lack of competition for some years???)
@Ian, if possible please include a comparison of a 2500k or 2600k Sandy at 4Ghz vs the newer 7600 or 7700 processors. if this is possible of course.
limitedaccess - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
So $305 is the official MSRP? This makes it cheapest mainstream i7 k series release yet?According to Anandtech's review even the first 2600k had a higher $317 MSRP, 3770k was the previous lowest at $313.
Ken_g6 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Ars Technica says it's $350, not $305. Typo?http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/intel-core-...
limitedaccess - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Looking at some other reviews, Tom's, Techreport and PCPer say $339.cfenton - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
On the final page it says, "At the end of the day, the Core i7-7700K... has a tray price of $305. This means it will probably reach shelves around $330-$350, and we haven’t heard about a new stock cooler so it will probably come without one."So $305 is the tray price and retail will be $330-$350.
Casper42 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
> I highly suspect that the Xeon CPUs will be announced later in Q1, given that the target market for these is a little different to standard desktop processors.Late March
chucky2 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
I hope in the chipset review piece you're doing later, you address what future CPU's will be supported under series 200 socket 1151 motherboards. For example, is Intel committing to Coffee Lake support on these boards? Cannonlake? I.e. How much longevity are we going to get with these boards? Same same on the Xeon boards front for it's chipset.TEAMSWITCHER - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
I'm thinking the longevity will be very short. Z270 is to Z170 ... just as ... Z97 was to Z87. Intel's 10 nm processors will probably introduce a new socket.chucky2 - Wednesday, January 4, 2017 - link
If Z270 really is like Z97, that will be a complete joke.I'm starting to wonder if the physical limits have basically been reached, and we're slowly (whether by Corp design or physics, or, some of both), just hitting the wall and this is essentially it.
Rampart - Friday, January 6, 2017 - link
I would say that silicon is hitting its physical limit as we can see with the yields. But that doesn't mean that we won't see some different exotic compounds taking its place.Nagorak - Thursday, January 5, 2017 - link
Based on my 2500K I'd say you're going to get at least 5 years of use out of these boards! I'd say that's pretty good for longevity!Oh, wait, that's not what you were asking?
tomi1 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Any idea why 7820HK, 7280HQ and 7700HQ are the same msrp $340?Who in the right mind will choose 7700HQ when the HK is clearly better at the same prices.
MrSpadge - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
The mobile prices don't make much sense, as in the previous generations. If there were no further discounts for the slower models, OEMs wouldn't use them at all.slideruler - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
That thing Intel does is becoming a problem. As usual, the trouble lies with all the software. OSes are having trouble keeping up with all those minor tweaks (both Windows and Linux.) The worst part is that at the end of the day, with all that effort of wring new power management drivers, there is not much to show for it...MrSpadge - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Are you talking about Speed Shift v2? If so: did you miss the part about it requiring no new drivers? If not: I have no idea what you're complaining about. Is it that Linux and OSX don't have Speed Shift drivers yet? In that case Intel should never introduce any new features...yannigr2 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
The i3 7350K looks like a trolling joke. $157 for 4.2GHz? And how high can it go? 4.8GHz? Wow! 14% improvement. What would have been nice, would have been an unlocked 7100 at $110.Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
I'm hoping somebody delids one and pushes it to 5.5GHz.zepi - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Display resolution support is a disgrace. Year 2017 and they are stil stuck with dp1.2. World needs to move on. Should have moved on already long time ago so that we could actually use the high-dpi displays in bigger then 24" sizes.jjj - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
So now the question is how how low does AMD go with quad Zen.From a cost perspective they can go to 49$ and up -they need to address the budget market and a quad CPU or a dual core APU are about the same area.
From a business perspective it would be better for quad Zen to start at 99$ and they would still make a killing.
Lolimaster - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
Considering the minimum cores you get per module is 4, I see AMD selling months later a 3c/6t cpu for $99.They will make a tweak for the raven ridge APU since the core count for those is 4c max.
jjj - Friday, January 6, 2017 - link
Every segment they don't cover (and they don't have Zen APUs yet) is business left on the table - the budget segment is big enough and in regions they care about.Maybe they should go to 49$ with quads and disable HT, some cache but it is likely that if they don't do that, most would make an effort to get the 99$ quad. Just hope they don't get too greedy and start way higher, Intel can make quads without a GPU too, won't take too long and AMD needs to exploit this window of opportunity and gain,not just revenue, but hearts and minds.
name99 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
"We still have not received an official word if Intel is working closely with Apple to bring the feature to macOS, or even if it will be promoted if it ever makes the transition"Could some more-or-less unexpected interaction between Speed Shift 2 and the rest of MacOS be the reason for the apparently random dramatic swings in the battery lifetime of the new MacBook Pros? We hardly know enough to point fingers at either Apple or Intel, but I could certainly imagine that each side has a certain mental model of what the other side is/"should" be doing, and the mismatch between those models means that the CPU is randomly being told to run at maximum speed when the OS actually wants it to dramatically slow down.
I agree that this sounds kinda dumb of the surface, but I could imagine that there are enough layers between UI/framework code, the power driver, the core OS, and EFI, that something gets confused along the way including, perhaps, exposing a bug (again either on the Apple side or the Intel side) that just didn't get triggered (or at least not very often) on either previous x86 CPUs or on Linux/Windows.
rodmunch69 - Tuesday, January 3, 2017 - link
My 5 year old 3930k can still basically keep up with Intel's latest and greatest with stock voltage OC. Hum... I used to buy new stuff every year, or every two years at most, because there was normally a good gain to be had. It's legit been 5 years now and my PC with a little work, in multi core tests, is just as fast as anything out there. That's pitiful on Intel's behalf. They've gotten fat and lazy and the consumer is paying for it. Trump needs to tell AMD to put the A back into their chips and actually put out some products at the high-end that actually pushes Intel to be great again.Laststop311 - Wednesday, January 4, 2017 - link
Is it really worth saving 60 dollars to get an unlocked i3 vs the unlocked i5? I really can't see any situation where 60 dollars is the difference between being able to afford a new pc or not. With DX12 it HIGHLY benefits from having 4 cores (really 6 cores is optimum with 8 only slightly improving). Being stuck with 2 cores in this day is severely crippling your lifespan of the pc. You will waste GPU power and be constrained by the 2 cores all in the name to save 60 dollars. Nah it's not worth it.Kaby lake in general is not worth it. Everyone with quad core sandy bridge and above is going to see very minimal gains from a quad core cpu. You really need to go to 6 cores to get any real performance increase and you also need to be playing in dx 12 mode. Your best bet is to wait for the 2019 tock of 10nm coffee lake. Intel will be moving to pci-e 4.0 which doubles the bandwidth so an 8x pci-e 4.0 is the same as a 16x pci-e 3.0. Since gpu's only lose a few percentage points of performance on 8x pci-e 3.0, 8x pci-e 4.0 will give them all the breathing room they need. This leaves you 16x lanes of the 24 lanes to use for m2 storage devices or capture cards without having to use the higher latency PCH pci-e lanes. Or with multi GPU you still have 8x cpu pci-e lanes and you only need 2x pci-e 4.0 lanes to give you 4GB/s (32gbps) so you can fit dual gpu's and 4 pci-e storage devices all connected to the cpu directly and both gpu's will get 16GB/s (128gbps) bandwidth. This gives you massive future proofing. With intel optane maturing you can go single gpu at 16x pci-e 4.0 lanes 32GB/s bandwidth (256gbps) stick an optane drive on 4x lanes giving you a massive 8GB/s (64gbps) and 2 m2 nvme ssd's on 2x lanes each 4GB/s (32gbps) each, with all devices connected directly to CPU for the lowest latency leaving all the PCH lanes free for external ports like TB3 USB 3.1 gen 2 etc.
By waiting till 2019 you get a real upgrade instead of a sidegrade. pci-e 4.0 will unlock the true potential of Intel optane as i expect by then the optane drives will be maxing out the 4x pci-e 3.0 lanes at 4GB/s and pci-e 4.0 will allow optane to really shine and most likely hit 7GB/s or more. With that kinda storage speed you can transfer an entire blu ray disc image in about 7 seconds.
Now by all means if you are still on the Q series quad cores than kaby lake is a compelling upgrade and isn't a total waste of money to upgrade. But even in that circumstance I would say try to stick it out another year so you can have a 6 core coffee lake as 6 cores is incredibly useful in dx12.
Lolimaster - Wednesday, January 4, 2017 - link
You mean upgrade to the 8c/16t Ryzen or wait 2018-2019 for the 7nm Zen+?gopher1369 - Wednesday, January 4, 2017 - link
The only thing that occurs to me is game emulators. Dolphin and PCSX2 require high clock speeds and high IPC, not more cores. It's quite niche, but if you're building an emulator box then the unlocked Anniversary Edition Haswell Pentium is currently the go-to processor, the new i3 should be even better.Laststop311 - Wednesday, January 4, 2017 - link
What applications use AVX instructions? I wonder how much it will hurt performance for some applications by decreasing AVX to 4.0ghz so you can hit 5.0ghz on everything else. The highest overclock i've seen talked about is 5.1ghz on the i7-7700k using the corsair 115ijohnp_ - Wednesday, January 4, 2017 - link
(3) Embedded DisplayPort* (eDP) 1.4 and PSR2 under evaluationI seriously didn't expect that! This means that they actually changed the display pipeline slightly :)
Now, hopefully laptop vendors will make use of PSR2 to further improve battery life.
On a side-note: Does anyone know how to overclock the 7820HK when there's no mobile chipset that supports overclocking? Will laptop vendors have to include the Z270 desktop chipset on their platform?
keeepcool - Friday, January 6, 2017 - link
You open intel XTU and press on the arrows till it BSOD's.Laptop chipsets are "different" in a lot of senses.
Shadowmaster625 - Saturday, January 7, 2017 - link
Upcoming (we’re at CES and didn’t have time to finish these yet):The Intel Core i3-7350K Review: When a Core i3 Nearly Matches the Core i7-2600K
And what's your excuse now that CES is done?
arjun1259 - Tuesday, January 17, 2017 - link
Lets what ever it be! Have more physical cores is always awesome. i3 7350 can be overclocked easly to 5Ghz but it still makes no improvements for multi threaded applications. See this thread https://forums.arctotal.com/posts/91/AGS3 - Thursday, April 20, 2017 - link
CPU technology has hit the wall for many reasons. See this 3 part series http://www.edn.com/design/systems-design/4368705/T...Intel integrated graphics my not feature in the gaming world but has huge power in media processing especially in 4k AVC/HEVC video editing where software encoders and decoders struggle even with 10 core cpus. Hardware encode/decode is the way to go and this gpu has lots of power. Price is a bargain for a 4 core i7-7700k that overclocks to 5ghz and a free potent gpu.