Hey everyone, thanks for coming to read about AMD's roadmaps. I want to go into a lot more detail on what came out of AMD's Tech Day, particularly about APUs, 12nm, 7nm, Vega, new APU pricing, the X470 chipset and so on, but a pretty bad strain of CES flu is doing the rounds and this year I'm an unlucky recipient. It's not completely debilitating, but bad enough for me to lose concentration that I might have to cancel a few meetings at the show tomorrow as a result if I can't string a coherent thought together.
Rather than post a garbled mess, I want to get around to detailing the news for you all properly, as there's a lot of nuances to go into. We also had an interview with Dr. Lisa Su about AMD in 2018. Stay tuned for updates over the next couple of weeks, as I stay hydrated and call room service for chicken soup!
AMD has one die design covering the whole of Ryzen Desktop + Threadripper + EPYC, and one die design covering Ryzen Mobile + Ryzen APUs. They're not going to spend a third amount of money on masks for a single low-end dual-core die with a few CUs unless it was going to expand into a new segment of products. Given that AMD has been quite open about its 2018 roadmap today, I doubt that would happen.
Well there is a 2 core / 3 CUs design on the roadmap - Banded Kestrel. This is however intended for embedded. Although it is rather similar to the Bristol Ridge / Stoney Ridge split, and the latter also showed up in non-embedded markets. However, just like Stoney Ridge, Banded Kestrel will be limited to single-channel memory. I always assumed it's going to show up in cheap notebooks/PCs, basically as a Pentium Silver competitor, but of course I could be wrong (in any case, it's not ready yet).
Most of us who sit in front of computers all day aren't getting enough vitamin D. Vitamin D plays a major regulatory role in our immune systems. Since realizing I was deficient in vitamin D a few years ago (your doctor can easily test for this), I've been supplementing it, and getting sick far less often as a result.
But I smoke heavily, drink coffee almost continuously, eat poorly and avoid the Sun, and don't take vitamin supplements.
I haven't been sick in decades ...
Not that I would advise anyone to smoke nor offer medical advice but there's flu shots (which I also don't have) that will reduce your vulnerability rather than copy my lifestyle.
The problem with that attitude is that you are chipping away at your body's natural defenses against all kinds of diseases, such as COPD, over time.
You are born with a lot of over-provision inside each of your organs. Those activities are eating away faster than normal. What happens when you run out of extra "space"? Same as on an SSD Degraded performance or size.
Everything is fine... until one day, it's not. I have a co-worker somewhat like you describe (though he probably ate a bit better than that). He had a massive heart attack. He's still with us, but such an event is probably more costly and disruptive to one's life than simply taking better care of yourself.
It is incredibly easy to get Vitamin D outside of the Pacific Northwest or similiar environments...
"If you're fair skinned, experts say going outside for 10 minutes in the midday sun—in shorts and a tank top with no sunscreen—will give you enough radiation to produce about 10,000 international units of the vitamin. "
Too much. About 2000 IU/day is optimal for minimizing all-cause mortality. Perhaps more can be supplemented in short spurts, however.
It might be possible to safely exceed 2k IU/day if also supplementing magnesium and/or vitamin K, since one of the down-sides of overdosing Vitamin D is calcification of blood vessels.
Anyway, Vitamin D isn't the only proven immune booster. Garlic is another good one.
Endocrinology professor once said that the nations with the highest incidences of skin cancers (Australia) also have the lowest rates of population with low vitamin D, even in the Southeast United States people are going outside less and less; especially in the older populations. Not to mention the younger age groups with the phone attached to their face 24/7, and most people over 65 will need 2000-5000units of Vit D3 supplementation/day. However, in extreme cases a once weekly dose of Vit D2 1.25mg (50,000 units) once weekly for 12 weeks then reassessing lab values will render >45ng/dl will will be about where most people need to be. Then daily normal supplementation can continue from there. Endo professor said people who smoke need to avoid Vit A, and Copper supplementation unless they are in high risk of Macular Degeneration due to the increased risk in smokers of Vit A and Copper supplementation causing increased correlation of cancer. However he always emphazies that study x and study y can generate relevant data, and one study can "disprove findings" of another, because CORRELATION does NOT prove CAUSATION.
Yeah, here's another tidbit for you all to research...SELENIUM. 95% of American diets are severely deficient in Selenium. Selenium is an immune system regulator. Best source of Selenium = Brazil Nuts. In fact, not one to spread conspiracy theories (ok, yes I am), but I read a rather in-depth article once by an AIDS researcher that claimed that AIDS isn't even caused by HIV (like conventional "wisdom" claims), but rather every subject he took samples from and tested that had AIDS actually was severely deficient in Selenium in their body. Since I've been eating 1 brazil nut a day, I haven't been sick in YEARS. Most I've ever had was a sniffle, but it goes no further into my RT than my nose. Check it out.
Too much selenium is strongly linked to development of insulin resistance. So, be careful with long-term selenium supplementation and Brazil nut consumption. One/day is probably fine, but not much more.
"It is our understanding that the 12nm process is essentially a 14+ process for GloFo"
Would you please a credible source for that statement. Say, EETimes or other such Industry outlet rather than an garnished from sites who do nothing other than plagiarize work that fits into the point they are try to make.
I too have read on-line media's dismissal of GloFo 12nm process. Everything that I have read on this matter is based upon an early on-line media piece highly critical to AMD that tried to minimize the impact of 12nm. GloFo on their website specifically states that 12nm is a NEW process node and it is 12nm. GloFo has announced that 12nm IS 12nm, a new shrink from 14nm. Announcing falsely would create all sorts of problems with the FTC and lawyers who do nothing but specialize in Class Action suits. Case in point Intel is getting it's clock cleaned due to their knowledge of and failure to eliminate the Meltdown hardware flaw.
As with ALL process nodes, the entire die is not fabbed with say 12nm or 14nm or for that matter the upcoming 7nm node. There are components within the die that can be and sometimes must be greater in size than the process node taped out for the silicon.
Perhaps you shaould also take the time to ask Dr. Su directly if ONE DESIGN covers ALL EPYC, RYZEN and Threadripper design? In my opinion EPYC is a design similar to Zeppelin and Ryzen but with some major design differences that make a server processor.
No sense speculating on something if you can ask AMD CEO directly.
They may have been able to reduce the minimum possible feature size in a way that lets them claim a new number, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the performance of a finished product is significantly different.
It's impossible to know until products are out in the world, because all we have for now is GloFo PR statements, which are going to make things look as rosy as possible.
The Zeppelin die covers all Ryzen, Ryzen Pro, Threadripper, and EPYC CPUs. However, there are parts disabled on those designated Ryzen and Threadripper that are enabled on Ryzen Pro and EPYC. I do not know for certain if there is any feature differences between Ryzen Pro and EPYC but judging from AMDs own information there doesn't seem to be.
Meltdown - Not relevant here. TSMC called their 16nm++ ( or was it 16nm +++ ) as 12nm. And FTC would have a problem with Intel because their 10nm really should be 7nm by Fab Industry measurement.
And it is not garish, it is straight from GF investor conference.
Design? Speculate? Is Goldmount the same design as Goldmount+. Do QA and feature / yield test accounts for design? And more importantly, do even any other chip maker disclose these information? There is something call trade secret.
To be more specific, GloFo's own conference / announcement talked about the name change... AMD's roadmaps had "Zen+" on a GloFo 14nm+ node, then suddenly that same roadmap changed it to "12nm" when GloFo announced the new node (and named it)
Wouldn't now be a perfect time to implement changes to the predictive branch execution portions of the new processors, to eliminate issues with Spectre and Meltdown, since they're just making these processors now?
They have _finished_ the Zen 2 design. Zen already doesn't have problems with Meltdown. Spectre is a lot harder to do anything about, other than maybe adding an instruction for a branch prediction barrier. Maybe they had time to add that to Zen 2, or maybe it can be done even in Zen+ without much trouble. Your software will need to be recompiled against it, however.
Spectre fix is promised to Zen2 so Zen+ does not have it. Zen2 has one year time to have some modifications and they already have had about half year to plan those upgrades. Too late for Zen+ but fortunately enough for Zen2 released sometime in 2019. It may be so that Zen2 will come later to the market than Zen+ will depending on how much they need to hone the process.
"It is our understanding that the 12nm process is essentially a 14+ process for GloFo"
Forbes disagrees with you. And Forbes IS a credible source that does not plagiarize work form essentially online media hacks.
"Later this year, AMD will also be refreshing the Ryzen desktop lineup including their Threadripper and Pro processors with a new Zen+ core that is based on GlobalFoundries new 12nm process, which should deliver more performance at lower power."
I mean Christ, you have financial industry reporter reporting on tech they barely understand and having reader that credit a non technical Journal pieces as creditable source and then attacking a journalist on a technical information site labelling him or her and the site as not creditable and when the journalist has a bloody Oxford PhD in the ElecChem Field.
GloFo announced LONG AGO that they were skipping the 10nm node and going straight from 14nm to 7nm. They mentioned that there would be some 14nm tweaks.
Other competitors started tweaking their 14nm / 16nm nodes and in some cases re-branded them (tsmc, IIRC rebranded a 16nm improvement as 12nm).
There is more than one feature size measurement in a process, being able to shrink a small subset of these by a little bit will allow for some increased density. Add on some other tweaks and you can lower power too. What do you call a heavily tweaked node that only shrinks a few of the feature sizes but not all? What number is half way between 14 and 10?
It doesn't really matter what they call it. Its ~ 10% faster or 10% lower power, with ~10% to 15% higher density.
The 12nm process is essentially a 14nm+, or ++. Its not a wholly new node. Fact 1: it will be incrementally deployed as a revision to the 14nm process where you start over nearly from scratch and almost the entire manufacturing pipeline is new. Fact 2: Unlike most minor tweaks, it does increase density. There is some justification in giving it a new size due to fact 2, but it is not a brand new process due to fact 1.
A truly new node takes _years_ to develop, not months. This appeared on their roadmap suddenly. Everyone and their brother (other than you) knew that they had a 14nm+ in the works -- AMD's roadmaps had "Zen+" on a GloFo "14nm+" node. Suddenly there was no more "14nm+" on AMD's roadmaps, and it was replaced with "12nm".
Ugh, I should proof-read: Fact 1: it will be incrementally deployed as a revision to the 14nm process where you start over nearly from scratch and almost the entire manufacturing pipeline is new.
Should say: Fact 1: it will be incrementally deployed as an upgrade to the 14nm process (many of the manufacturing steps remain identical), while an entirely new node typically implies replacing almost the entire manufacturing pipeline.
"Acer will use the pre-announced higher-end APUs, the Ryzen 7 2700U and Ryzen 5 2500U, but will also be pairing this with a Radeon RX 560 graphics chip."
Does iGPU and dGPU can crossfire or they just independently (switch from iGPU to dGPU and vice versa) depending upon power situation.
Literally the rest of the paragraph answers the question.
We were told by AMD that the integrated graphics and discrete graphics will be used in a switching context: for video playback, the lower power integrated graphics is used and the discrete is disabled, however the discrete graphics is fired up for gaming work. For compute, or for games that support multi-adaptor DirectX 12 technologies, both the integrated graphics and the discrete graphics should be available, however this is up to the game/software to implement.
AMD executing right now and while there is argument that they've played it safe with Zen so far, they are in a very favorable position in the market. -"While most of the roadmap could have been predicted by those of us embedded in this industry, it was good to see AMD volunteering a lot of information. This can be a bit of a double-edged sword, if a competitor knows what you have planned". AMD knows that Intel's roadmap is in chaos as right now and pushing existing Zen designs to lower power envelopes and/or increasing clock speeds will close the performance gap. If Zen 2 advances in terms of IPC by any significant margin, they could actually pull ahead in 2019 but that entirely depends on Intel's response, in particular Ice Lake.
Intel's missteps with 10 nm has left them open as the first Cannon Lake parts were due in late 2016! Meltdown and Spectre meltdown could have been the death blow to Cannon Lake as the incoming lawsuits make it unwise to release products with such significant flaws. Intel's server line up is also in chaos due to Meltdown/Spectre as Cascade Lake was pinned in as a stop-gap 14 nm solution before Cannon Lake-SP in 2019. Cascade lake for release this year should already be sampling but Meltdown/Spectre could force a delay. In particular is that Cascade Lake is supposed to support Optane DIMMs. The 10 nm Knight's Hill HPC processor has been cancelled roughly a month ago and replaced by Knight's Mill as a stop-gap for partners looking into AI. We'll probably find out later today when Intel's CEO takes the stage at CES.
"Death blow"? You seem to vastly overestimate the amount of silicon GoFlo can produce. Even if everything goes right for AMD, Intel will be shipping Cannon Lake chips left and right to consumers (the chips in the article appeared mostly for consumers) as GoFlo furiously produces Zepplin (or whatever its followup is called) and AMD ships them as hyperprofitable EPYC chips.
That said, Intel certainly takes AMD competition seriously enough to throw together competing products such as the X299, even if such products make the rest of Intel look like they have no idea what they are doing. But still, massive gains for AMD will look like a tiny blip in Intel's revenue.
With Zen 2 already complete, I'm wondering if it contains any hardware assists for mitigation of Spectre-type attacks a la Intel's proposed IBRS/STIBP/IBPB?
What is the status of thunderbolt and AMD today? Can Apple or similar manufacturer take AMD parts and create something that does the same thing as a Macbook pro or iMac today, with thunderbolt ports that has the same functionality as todays Intel based offerings?
In theory, the TB controller is just a hunk of silicon hanging off the PCIe bus. But the fact that Intel is the only manufacturer is a probably an issue.
Maybe I haven't been paying attention but i've just started to notice how low quality images on this site actually are, though especially in this article. That image of Lisa Su looks like its from an early 2000s budget digital camera using digital zoom. Why are the slideshow caps horrendously compressed JPEGs?
Vega on 7nm is likely very bad news if it's more than this SKU targeted at machine learning as it implies that Navi is very late and AMD stays utterly uncompetitive in GPU.
@Ian Cutress. looks like a typo in this line "The Ryzen 5 2200U is the only dual core component in AMD’s entire Ryzen product line", I think it should be "The Ryzen 3 2200U". And also is there any information, if AMD planning to release mobile processors which can go against Intel HQ line of mobile/laptop processors, presuming that these 'U' processors are pitted against Intel 'U' processors. Or these 'U' processors from the AMD are the only mobile/laptop class processors that we gonna see from AMD in the next year or two.
- so few mobile SKUs, why no 45W SKUs, no 11CU SKUs - so few desktop APU SKUs and what do they have above 170$ and maybe bellow 100$ - Vega on 7nm in 2019 while Navi also in 2019, area you certain that Navi+ is 2020 or is that an assumption, because if seems that if Vega on 7nm goes everywhere, Navi can't be 2019 and Naxi+ wouldn't be 2020 - 7nm+ being a second gen 7nm is your assumption or AMD stated that. in theory could be what comes after 7nm so 5nm - where are the 150-250$ new gen GPUs, I get that they are too lazy to meet demand with the current ones but perf per $ is atrocious and they'll kill gaming at this pace - being surprise that Zen 2 is done is odd, AMD might have Epyc 2 on 7nm in late 2019 so ofc the core is done. And ofc , with that in mind, when you say Zen 2 2019, in consumer at least as server could be different - where is a Rave Ridge refresh in H2 this year? They really don't have one or - we don't care about efficiency gains with Pinnacle Ridge, we need higher clocks, better memory support, some minimal SoC level gains and maybe same cache changes but we really just need anything from 4.5GHz to 7GHz- where they land in that range defines how open our wallets are. OK we want more PCIe too and if they could support much faster memory, we would even take more then 8 cores.
Anyway, this seems like a rather incomplete roadmap.
Nor quite. Vega on 7nm is a SKU aimed at machine learning that samples in late 2018. That means volume in 2019 and other SKUs later , if there are other SKUs- I am unclear if AMD stated that there are other SKUs or that's an AT assumption. There is a possibility that Navi hits high end in 2019 and Vega lives bellow but that's kinda silly as AMD needs to be in a huge rush to replace Vega with something that is more competitive.
True. The machine learning chips Are the top priority I was just quessing that mobile part would Also get upgrade. My bad... So next Vega goes against machine learning Volta. Maybe Nvidia neither will release normal Volta, only those calculate monsters to AI projects. That would be interesting.
Vega 7nm is 2019 for volumes it seem, Volta V100 will be replaced by something new likely this year and again in 2019- at the very least there will be one update. What Nvidia will do in consumer is unclear as there is no pressure on them to spend on releasing new things. The Intel+AMD part is problematic in laptop so likely they'll address that segment soon with something new.
I was really hoping for a low power 8C/16T Ryzen CPU's, these can be used in SFF & laptops with dGPU already... these will be for those who want more CPU performance than GPU, or they need both CPU & GPU power.
You'll probably have to wait for 7nm for that. Current thermal budgets in laptop designs just aren't going to get you usable 16T performance from 35-45W.
Table of Ryzen Mobile CPUs has all Raven Ridge APUs with '1MB per core'. But this is not true for R3 2200U, which still has the same 4MB of L3: http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/ces-... Also- I still hope that is a Banded Kestrel die. On that topic, Joe Macri, when asked about RR use for fanless designs back in October, said it would not work too well, and would have to be clocked real low; when asked if they are building a different chip for that fanless market- answered only broadly- 'we love PCs,.. we want you to find AMD everywhere where PC is'. So I'm not sure- does that still mean only Stoney Ridge (if it qualifies for fanless), or a new die. Just looking at the AMD's below average power efficiency in RR laptops at browsing and playing video- maybe AMD knew they are simply not ready for fanless, and need to put in more work. But I still wish they released Zen 2C/4T 3CU - if not low power- then at least for even cheaper normal laptops. After all- Raven Ridge is not very small die at 210mm2, and a very cheap ~110mm2 die with 2c/4t Zen could also be successful.
Come on AMD, please come up with something in the <4W TDP range for tablets and ultralights. I'm thinking of something that slots in between Apollo Lake Atom and Intel Y-series but with better GPUs than either of those. Gotta be cheap too.
AMD has previously announced that Navy will have a PCI-E 4.0 interface. Either way, in 2018. the new motherboards(4XX series) will be with the current PCI-E 3.0, so it seems logical for Navy to be on the market in the spring of 2019 when the next-generation motherboards (5XX series) will no longer have full maintenance of the PCI-E 4.0.
"Also included at AMD’s event were a number of side announcements that we will also go into. This includes (but is not limited to): Custom Radeon Vega Designs"
Please! More info, including any information on when (if?) AMD intend to ramp production so AIB vendors can do more than periodically run small batches of custom Vega cards through a factory (at greater expense).
Does Vega 7nm necessarily means GF though? I thought the drop of Vega 12nm+ make sense as it would be competing with Ryzen for GF capacity. Given how AMD is doing well and should be even better now when Meltdown is on Intel.
I would have thought moving Radeon back to TSMC would be a much better choice.
Just a guess, but based off his comment he suggested that Radeon would be competing for fab space at GF. If reduced capacity for Zen cuts into profits then the extra costs to move might be worth it.
so it sounds like a "refresh" to RX 500 series which was claimed for 2018 is not happening, that sucks TBH..
need a new GPU and many of the "good" RX 570-580s are out of stock or low in stock ballooning their prices, need replace my 7870 sometime soon, 460/560 will not cut it, and spending ~$80 more than should is a no go for me to replace it. 1280 shader 256 bit bus with a bump in ROP/TMU at 170w maximum (heavily overclocked) 7870 was THE "mainstream" performance card for its generation, have not seen AMD nor Nv release one that is "comparable" either higher performance (higher price) or less performance (similar price) but nothing to supplant it really.
Good news though, just shows that Zen+ (12nm) is/was not Zen2 (was always to be on 7nm) which I told off many a 3rd party "review" site claiming it would be ^.^
@Sttm - I'm also sorry that AMD's graphics wasn't a win in 2017. But I wonder what games you could possibly find good enough to warrant moving "up" from a 1080? The tiny increase in quality or FPS would only be meaningful - maybe - on a game you love that has top-notch graphics AND doesn't look good enough on your current card. I only wish there was something even close to that for me.
Plenty of modern games play somewhat smoothly at 4K on a 1080 Ti, but could use a bump up in fps. Once you see 4k gaming, it's kind of hard to unsee, which is why I haven't bothered to buy a 1440p gaming panel to complement my professional panel. I'd gladly pay another $700 + the cost of a 4K Gsync/Freesync monitor next year to upgrade the 1080 Ti to something that can crush any game at 4K, but it doesn't look like that product will hit the market in 2019 because AMD is so far behind, and everyone's making tons of money selling GPUs for crypto.
I hope you'll get better soon Ian. I don't think I would be able to type a single sentence if I were in your shoes, I have to admit am impressed by your resilience.
It bears noting, that liquid cooling is getting to be mainstream, and apuS DO allow both cpu & gpu to use a single cost effective cooler - ~$100usd.
Desirable as gpu LC may be, it tends to be impossible/difficult on discrete gpuS physically. LC cooling the APU's gpu is very simple.
The usual chip TDP constraints can be greatly loosened if LC is assumed (as in the ~300w LC vega).
"The Ryzen 5 2400G will run at up to 3.9GHz with 4-cores/8-threads and 11 CUs, a 65W TDP, and a price of $169."
Rumors of apuS w/ 28CUs dont seem fanciful, they seem conservative.
My guess? is most moboS would handle a 180W module in their socket?
An 8GB vega 56 is 210W TDP.
FYI:
"www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-ama,5018.html Apr 14, 2017 - 1. TDP is not electrical watts (power draw), it's thermal watts. 2. Published processor TDPs are often rounded up to fit a desired specification. For example, AM4 motherboards are specd to run processors with 65W and 95W TDPs. It gives motherboard manufacturers and system builders a thermal framework"
You will be feeling like crap a long time. Take it easy, you’ll only get worse. Thanks for the info on new desktop w/ GFX. Any info on that is appreciated. I just got over the flu, caught in Vegas. Lasted 5 weeks and I took the advice and got a flu shot in November. Big help....NOT
"To accompany the HP Envy x360, the Lenovo Ideapad 720S, and the Acer Swift 3, Q1 will see the launch of a new HP (under embargo until later this week),"
Now that the week is almost up, has anyone seen news as to what that new HP device is?
Did AMD have a solution to the current impossibility of buying an AMD GPU? If we can't deal actually buy their GPUs, AMD might as well not exist, and in a very real sense they don't exist right now.
The current references to upcoming zen are confusing as hell. There is Zen+ 2nd Generation and then Zen 2 coming out. Should leave out "2nd Gen" alltogether.
To fix mistakes in some tables: table on page 2: L3 cache should probably say simply '4MB' for all RR parts. first table on page 3- two G-series OPNs have C4 (15W) written in their codes. They should be YD2200C5M4MFB + YD2200C5FBBOX and YD2400C5FBBOX + YD2400C5M4MFB, http://products.amd.com/en-us/compare?prod1=148&am... And I still hope 209.78 mm2 die size for 2200U is wrong- and it is Banded Kestrel die. Or at least that BK will be coming to work as 2200U later.
I do not see a 39dba being anywhere close to "silent" this is above many others truth be told, if they went with a larger fan probably could have dropped Dba levels down, or if they use fancier blades to reduce air noise, something along that line.
But yes, wraith max being priced at $60 is/was insane, I would say would be "fair" to be no more than $40. seeing as so many others are available in this price range that are at least as good if not superior, yes RGB adds some to price, but, the dimensions of the cooler and lack of thermal mass also means it will not cool as well or require a much louder fan/pressure to be "equivalent"
Shame no Vega or RX on 12nm (14nm+) pretty much no where that I can see (Canada) has any RX anything, they have Vega sure, but WAY above MSRP/MSEP, greed of sellers, greed of the makers drives price up and up, just means those who want a "gaming card" end up paying through the nose for it.
Nice to see AMD focus some attention on the ram overclock side of the equation, so one can use baseline higher memory speed or overclock or both to get that much more performance.
All in all, IMO AMD have really pushed forward to being far behind the pack (just barely staying alive) to in many ways being substantially better value and performance for $ spent (cpu/motherboard wise) and at least being competitive gpu wise (no they are not always, but have always been since Radeon 1900 days, sometimes more power more performance, sometimes power limited so not as much performance, cannot win every race, but, being able to "show up" is still very important, unlike say Matrox or Via who CANNOT even race the same race these days)
Sure wish their stock price was showing faith from investors/brokers, from bleeding money to pulling themselves out of the grave in less than 2 years against anything but easy competition says a lot, or at least it should be ^.^
GCN (Graphics Core Next) is one of the dumber architecture names out there. I sure hope it doesn't get succeeded by something we end up having to call "Next-Gen".
I wish AMD would release an uber APU (hmm just like Intel are doing) with a base performance of say solid 60 fps at 1440p for around 95W or less? I could get this APU and a board ram and a drive for a little more than what a discrete GPU is going for and in theory miners wont want them so they should be in stock for those that want to game...
An APU that powerful would probably attract miners.
Also, memory bandwidth is going to be a problem. To achieve that level of performance, the consoles had to use GDDR5. Intel had the right idea of giving the AMD GPU its own stack of HBM2.
These new Ryzen APUs could make nice base for next-gen consoles... with some modifications... but then, console APUs are already custom solutions, so that should not be impossible.
8 proper Ryzen cores running at over 3GHz and matching up-to-date GPU with sufficient number of CUs... would make quite powerful console at its core. Balanced one, too... it is hardly a secret that current consoles are under-powered on CPU side. Maybe Jaguar cores were necessity for this gen to keep price down, but next gen should be equipped at least with 8x Ryzen 3 cores?
BTW, I'm sure XBox One X kept Jaguar simply because Ryzen wasn't yet ready. There's a very long lead time for this silicon.
Also, it seems Jaguar's 28 mm cores are only 3.1 mm^2 per core, whereas Ryzen's 14 nm cores are 44 mm^2 (which sounds like it also includes cache). So, it seems pretty unrealistic to expect consoles will just drop in 8 Ryzen cores where they previously had 8 Jaguars.
This piece seems to mesh quite nicely with the latest bit about ASRock teaming up exclusively with AMD to produce either headless mining cards or MXM for mining.
Especially given the nature of the semi-custom Vega gpu that is described.
really wish AMD made 12nm refresh for RX 500 series as well as Vega instead of making us wait what 1/2 to 3/4 of a year and HOPE to get a gpu at or close to MSRP (not counting the greed of ODM such as Asus or places such as newegg on top of this pricing)
May not be quite as bad for USD folks but it sux a$$ for us CAD or other currency folks automatically paying more than should (and not it is NOT ONLY mining folks causing the price increase, it is GREED more than anything else) for example RX 570/580 I can get them easy enough, but absolutely am not willing/wanting to pay $100+ tax and shipping MORE than should be either, screw that noise, and I do not buy 2nd hand (hoping lasts awhile)
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Ian Cutress - Sunday, January 7, 2018 - link
Hey everyone, thanks for coming to read about AMD's roadmaps. I want to go into a lot more detail on what came out of AMD's Tech Day, particularly about APUs, 12nm, 7nm, Vega, new APU pricing, the X470 chipset and so on, but a pretty bad strain of CES flu is doing the rounds and this year I'm an unlucky recipient. It's not completely debilitating, but bad enough for me to lose concentration that I might have to cancel a few meetings at the show tomorrow as a result if I can't string a coherent thought together.Rather than post a garbled mess, I want to get around to detailing the news for you all properly, as there's a lot of nuances to go into. We also had an interview with Dr. Lisa Su about AMD in 2018. Stay tuned for updates over the next couple of weeks, as I stay hydrated and call room service for chicken soup!
Eris_Floralia - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Ian, isn't Ryzen 3 2200U utilizing a new dual core die?They did have a dual core die with 3 CUs on their former roadmap.
Ian Cutress - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
AMD has one die design covering the whole of Ryzen Desktop + Threadripper + EPYC, and one die design covering Ryzen Mobile + Ryzen APUs. They're not going to spend a third amount of money on masks for a single low-end dual-core die with a few CUs unless it was going to expand into a new segment of products. Given that AMD has been quite open about its 2018 roadmap today, I doubt that would happen.Eris_Floralia - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Thanks Ian.I'm also quite surprised they didn't announce the new die on CES if it will be coming. So it's just harvested dies....
mczak - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Well there is a 2 core / 3 CUs design on the roadmap - Banded Kestrel. This is however intended for embedded. Although it is rather similar to the Bristol Ridge / Stoney Ridge split, and the latter also showed up in non-embedded markets.However, just like Stoney Ridge, Banded Kestrel will be limited to single-channel memory. I always assumed it's going to show up in cheap notebooks/PCs, basically as a Pentium Silver competitor, but of course I could be wrong (in any case, it's not ready yet).
StevoLincolnite - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Error on the second page in the table..."Vega 3
3 CPUs
192 SPs"
Should be:
"Vega 3
3 CUs
192 SPs"
Krysto - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Next time, supplement 10,000 IU Vitamin D3 a day, months before CES. You can thank me later.Dave Null - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
This is actually very good advice.Most of us who sit in front of computers all day aren't getting enough vitamin D. Vitamin D plays a major regulatory role in our immune systems. Since realizing I was deficient in vitamin D a few years ago (your doctor can easily test for this), I've been supplementing it, and getting sick far less often as a result.
Rοb - Wednesday, January 24, 2018 - link
But I smoke heavily, drink coffee almost continuously, eat poorly and avoid the Sun, and don't take vitamin supplements.I haven't been sick in decades ...
Not that I would advise anyone to smoke nor offer medical advice but there's flu shots (which I also don't have) that will reduce your vulnerability rather than copy my lifestyle.
MFinn3333 - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
The problem with that attitude is that you are chipping away at your body's natural defenses against all kinds of diseases, such as COPD, over time.You are born with a lot of over-provision inside each of your organs. Those activities are eating away faster than normal. What happens when you run out of extra "space"? Same as on an SSD Degraded performance or size.
mode_13h - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
Also, cardiovascular risk factors are known to affect brain health.mode_13h - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
Everything is fine... until one day, it's not. I have a co-worker somewhat like you describe (though he probably ate a bit better than that). He had a massive heart attack. He's still with us, but such an event is probably more costly and disruptive to one's life than simply taking better care of yourself.mode_13h - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
BTW, coffee is probably a net-positive, as long as you keep the cortisol in check and don't add lots of sugar.MFinn3333 - Saturday, February 3, 2018 - link
It is incredibly easy to get Vitamin D outside of the Pacific Northwest or similiar environments..."If you're fair skinned, experts say going outside for 10 minutes in the midday sun—in shorts and a tank top with no sunscreen—will give you enough radiation to produce about 10,000 international units of the vitamin. "
mode_13h - Thursday, February 8, 2018 - link
Um, so exactly how does this help in winter, where the only exposed skin most people have is on their face and hands?And getting a couple hours/day of direct sun exposure on your face is going to take its toll on skin aging and cancer risk.
mode_13h - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
Too much. About 2000 IU/day is optimal for minimizing all-cause mortality. Perhaps more can be supplemented in short spurts, however.It might be possible to safely exceed 2k IU/day if also supplementing magnesium and/or vitamin K, since one of the down-sides of overdosing Vitamin D is calcification of blood vessels.
Anyway, Vitamin D isn't the only proven immune booster. Garlic is another good one.
ckbryant - Saturday, February 3, 2018 - link
Endocrinology professor once said that the nations with the highest incidences of skin cancers (Australia) also have the lowest rates of population with low vitamin D, even in the Southeast United States people are going outside less and less; especially in the older populations. Not to mention the younger age groups with the phone attached to their face 24/7, and most people over 65 will need 2000-5000units of Vit D3 supplementation/day. However, in extreme cases a once weekly dose of Vit D2 1.25mg (50,000 units) once weekly for 12 weeks then reassessing lab values will render >45ng/dl will will be about where most people need to be. Then daily normal supplementation can continue from there. Endo professor said people who smoke need to avoid Vit A, and Copper supplementation unless they are in high risk of Macular Degeneration due to the increased risk in smokers of Vit A and Copper supplementation causing increased correlation of cancer. However he always emphazies that study x and study y can generate relevant data, and one study can "disprove findings" of another, because CORRELATION does NOT prove CAUSATION.letmepicyou - Friday, February 2, 2018 - link
Yeah, here's another tidbit for you all to research...SELENIUM. 95% of American diets are severely deficient in Selenium. Selenium is an immune system regulator. Best source of Selenium = Brazil Nuts. In fact, not one to spread conspiracy theories (ok, yes I am), but I read a rather in-depth article once by an AIDS researcher that claimed that AIDS isn't even caused by HIV (like conventional "wisdom" claims), but rather every subject he took samples from and tested that had AIDS actually was severely deficient in Selenium in their body. Since I've been eating 1 brazil nut a day, I haven't been sick in YEARS. Most I've ever had was a sniffle, but it goes no further into my RT than my nose. Check it out.mode_13h - Thursday, February 8, 2018 - link
Too much selenium is strongly linked to development of insulin resistance. So, be careful with long-term selenium supplementation and Brazil nut consumption. One/day is probably fine, but not much more.AndrewJacksonZA - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Get well soon Ian!!mateau - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
@Ian ..."It is our understanding that the 12nm process is essentially a 14+ process for GloFo"
Would you please a credible source for that statement. Say, EETimes or other such Industry outlet rather than an garnished from sites who do nothing other than plagiarize work that fits into the point they are try to make.
I too have read on-line media's dismissal of GloFo 12nm process. Everything that I have read on this matter is based upon an early on-line media piece highly critical to AMD that tried to minimize the impact of 12nm. GloFo on their website specifically states that 12nm is a NEW process node and it is 12nm. GloFo has announced that 12nm IS 12nm, a new shrink from 14nm. Announcing falsely would create all sorts of problems with the FTC and lawyers who do nothing but specialize in Class Action suits. Case in point Intel is getting it's clock cleaned due to their knowledge of and failure to eliminate the Meltdown hardware flaw.
As with ALL process nodes, the entire die is not fabbed with say 12nm or 14nm or for that matter the upcoming 7nm node. There are components within the die that can be and sometimes must be greater in size than the process node taped out for the silicon.
Perhaps you shaould also take the time to ask Dr. Su directly if ONE DESIGN covers ALL EPYC, RYZEN and Threadripper design? In my opinion EPYC is a design similar to Zeppelin and Ryzen but with some major design differences that make a server processor.
No sense speculating on something if you can ask AMD CEO directly.
A5 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
They may have been able to reduce the minimum possible feature size in a way that lets them claim a new number, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the performance of a finished product is significantly different.It's impossible to know until products are out in the world, because all we have for now is GloFo PR statements, which are going to make things look as rosy as possible.
SaturnusDK - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
The Zeppelin die covers all Ryzen, Ryzen Pro, Threadripper, and EPYC CPUs. However, there are parts disabled on those designated Ryzen and Threadripper that are enabled on Ryzen Pro and EPYC. I do not know for certain if there is any feature differences between Ryzen Pro and EPYC but judging from AMDs own information there doesn't seem to be.Dr. Swag - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11854/globalfoundri...based on improvements in the 10-20% range calling it "essentially a 14nm+ node" seems reasonable to me.
iwod - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Huh?Meltdown - Not relevant here.
TSMC called their 16nm++ ( or was it 16nm +++ ) as 12nm.
And FTC would have a problem with Intel because their 10nm really should be 7nm by Fab Industry measurement.
And it is not garish, it is straight from GF investor conference.
Design? Speculate? Is Goldmount the same design as Goldmount+. Do QA and feature / yield test accounts for design? And more importantly, do even any other chip maker disclose these information? There is something call trade secret.
LurkingSince97 - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link
It is well known knowledge that GloFlo 're-branded' their 14nm+ to 12nm.There is nearly a dozen different feature sizes in a process these days, no one number captures it.
Also, GloFlo is not the only one that has done this sort of thing.
LurkingSince97 - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link
To be more specific, GloFo's own conference / announcement talked about the name change... AMD's roadmaps had "Zen+" on a GloFo 14nm+ node, then suddenly that same roadmap changed it to "12nm" when GloFo announced the new node (and named it)coolhardware - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Get well soon Ian!Luposian - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 - link
Wouldn't now be a perfect time to implement changes to the predictive branch execution portions of the new processors, to eliminate issues with Spectre and Meltdown, since they're just making these processors now?LurkingSince97 - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link
They have _finished_ the Zen 2 design. Zen already doesn't have problems with Meltdown. Spectre is a lot harder to do anything about, other than maybe adding an instruction for a branch prediction barrier. Maybe they had time to add that to Zen 2, or maybe it can be done even in Zen+ without much trouble. Your software will need to be recompiled against it, however.haukionkannel - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
Spectre fix is promised to Zen2 so Zen+ does not have it. Zen2 has one year time to have some modifications and they already have had about half year to plan those upgrades. Too late for Zen+ but fortunately enough for Zen2 released sometime in 2019. It may be so that Zen2 will come later to the market than Zen+ will depending on how much they need to hone the process.FreckledTrout - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 - link
Thanks Ian. Any news if Navi will have more than one GPU die on a chip, say something similar to what AMD did with Zen via Infinity Fabric?haukionkannel - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
That is what is guessed. To go from one big core to many smaller cores. Who knows...at80eighty - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
get well soon. articles can come laterAzethoth - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
I would love to see GPU articles on unavailable miner only cards be retroactively removed.Don't waste my time with useless bullshit that costs $1600 even though the manufacturer is happy with a fat profit at $500 MSRP.
slickr - Wednesday, February 7, 2018 - link
Aren't you a team of 3-4 writers that go on these events, so one person getting sick doesn't necessarily cancel all info?forgerone - Sunday, March 11, 2018 - link
It would appear that AMD is making Vega GPU's for ASRock MXM mining boards.IntelUser2000 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Radeon 530 is not Polaris. It uses older 28nm architecture.Ian Cutress - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
My bad, I misread a spec table. Updatedmateau - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
@Ian..."It is our understanding that the 12nm process is essentially a 14+ process for GloFo"
Forbes disagrees with you. And Forbes IS a credible source that does not plagiarize work form essentially online media hacks.
"Later this year, AMD will also be refreshing the Ryzen desktop lineup including their Threadripper and Pro processors with a new Zen+ core that is based on GlobalFoundries new 12nm process, which should deliver more performance at lower power."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmoorhead/2018/...
A5 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Anything that is forbes.com/sites/* is not credible. You can literally go sign up for one right now if you want.And Forbes proper isn't credible on anything outside the financial industry.
iwod - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
I mean Christ, you have financial industry reporter reporting on tech they barely understand and having reader that credit a non technical Journal pieces as creditable source and then attacking a journalist on a technical information site labelling him or her and the site as not creditable and when the journalist has a bloody Oxford PhD in the ElecChem Field.LurkingSince97 - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link
LOL.GloFo announced LONG AGO that they were skipping the 10nm node and going straight from 14nm to 7nm. They mentioned that there would be some 14nm tweaks.
Other competitors started tweaking their 14nm / 16nm nodes and in some cases re-branded them (tsmc, IIRC rebranded a 16nm improvement as 12nm).
There is more than one feature size measurement in a process, being able to shrink a small subset of these by a little bit will allow for some increased density. Add on some other tweaks and you can lower power too. What do you call a heavily tweaked node that only shrinks a few of the feature sizes but not all? What number is half way between 14 and 10?
It doesn't really matter what they call it. Its ~ 10% faster or 10% lower power, with ~10% to 15% higher density.
The 12nm process is essentially a 14nm+, or ++. Its not a wholly new node. Fact 1: it will be incrementally deployed as a revision to the 14nm process where you start over nearly from scratch and almost the entire manufacturing pipeline is new. Fact 2: Unlike most minor tweaks, it does increase density. There is some justification in giving it a new size due to fact 2, but it is not a brand new process due to fact 1.
A truly new node takes _years_ to develop, not months. This appeared on their roadmap suddenly. Everyone and their brother (other than you) knew that they had a 14nm+ in the works -- AMD's roadmaps had "Zen+" on a GloFo "14nm+" node. Suddenly there was no more "14nm+" on AMD's roadmaps, and it was replaced with "12nm".
Significant tweaks to an existing node however,
LurkingSince97 - Thursday, January 18, 2018 - link
Ugh, I should proof-read:Fact 1: it will be incrementally deployed as a revision to the 14nm process where you start over nearly from scratch and almost the entire manufacturing pipeline is new.
Should say:
Fact 1: it will be incrementally deployed as an upgrade to the 14nm process (many of the manufacturing steps remain identical), while an entirely new node typically implies replacing almost the entire manufacturing pipeline.
Sane Indian - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
"Acer will use the pre-announced higher-end APUs, the Ryzen 7 2700U and Ryzen 5 2500U, but will also be pairing this with a Radeon RX 560 graphics chip."Does iGPU and dGPU can crossfire or they just independently (switch from iGPU to dGPU and vice versa) depending upon power situation.
Ian Cutress - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Literally the rest of the paragraph answers the question.We were told by AMD that the integrated graphics and discrete graphics will be used in a switching context: for video playback, the lower power integrated graphics is used and the discrete is disabled, however the discrete graphics is fired up for gaming work. For compute, or for games that support multi-adaptor DirectX 12 technologies, both the integrated graphics and the discrete graphics should be available, however this is up to the game/software to implement.
Kevin G - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
AMD executing right now and while there is argument that they've played it safe with Zen so far, they are in a very favorable position in the market. -"While most of the roadmap could have been predicted by those of us embedded in this industry, it was good to see AMD volunteering a lot of information. This can be a bit of a double-edged sword, if a competitor knows what you have planned". AMD knows that Intel's roadmap is in chaos as right now and pushing existing Zen designs to lower power envelopes and/or increasing clock speeds will close the performance gap. If Zen 2 advances in terms of IPC by any significant margin, they could actually pull ahead in 2019 but that entirely depends on Intel's response, in particular Ice Lake.Intel's missteps with 10 nm has left them open as the first Cannon Lake parts were due in late 2016! Meltdown and Spectre meltdown could have been the death blow to Cannon Lake as the incoming lawsuits make it unwise to release products with such significant flaws. Intel's server line up is also in chaos due to Meltdown/Spectre as Cascade Lake was pinned in as a stop-gap 14 nm solution before Cannon Lake-SP in 2019. Cascade lake for release this year should already be sampling but Meltdown/Spectre could force a delay. In particular is that Cascade Lake is supposed to support Optane DIMMs. The 10 nm Knight's Hill HPC processor has been cancelled roughly a month ago and replaced by Knight's Mill as a stop-gap for partners looking into AI. We'll probably find out later today when Intel's CEO takes the stage at CES.
wumpus - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
"Death blow"? You seem to vastly overestimate the amount of silicon GoFlo can produce. Even if everything goes right for AMD, Intel will be shipping Cannon Lake chips left and right to consumers (the chips in the article appeared mostly for consumers) as GoFlo furiously produces Zepplin (or whatever its followup is called) and AMD ships them as hyperprofitable EPYC chips.That said, Intel certainly takes AMD competition seriously enough to throw together competing products such as the X299, even if such products make the rest of Intel look like they have no idea what they are doing. But still, massive gains for AMD will look like a tiny blip in Intel's revenue.
Orenj - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
With Zen 2 already complete, I'm wondering if it contains any hardware assists for mitigation of Spectre-type attacks a la Intel's proposed IBRS/STIBP/IBPB?PixyMisa - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Unlikely; they've only known about this for a couple of months.mikabr - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
What is the status of thunderbolt and AMD today? Can Apple or similar manufacturer take AMD parts and create something that does the same thing as a Macbook pro or iMac today, with thunderbolt ports that has the same functionality as todays Intel based offerings?A5 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
In theory, the TB controller is just a hunk of silicon hanging off the PCIe bus. But the fact that Intel is the only manufacturer is a probably an issue.Space Jam - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Maybe I haven't been paying attention but i've just started to notice how low quality images on this site actually are, though especially in this article. That image of Lisa Su looks like its from an early 2000s budget digital camera using digital zoom. Why are the slideshow caps horrendously compressed JPEGs?Get well soon Ian.
Ian Cutress - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Click through for full resolution.jjj - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Vega on 7nm is likely very bad news if it's more than this SKU targeted at machine learning as it implies that Navi is very late and AMD stays utterly uncompetitive in GPU.haukionkannel - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
And if Vega7 is small chip. It may be used in self driving cars and other small for factor special cases where the price is not so big problem.wr3zzz - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Can mobile Ryzen go down to 4.5W TDP for fanless designs?st_7 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
@Ian Cutress. looks like a typo in this line "The Ryzen 5 2200U is the only dual core component in AMD’s entire Ryzen product line", I think it should be "The Ryzen 3 2200U".And also is there any information, if AMD planning to release mobile processors which can go against Intel HQ line of mobile/laptop processors, presuming that these 'U' processors are pitted against Intel 'U' processors. Or these 'U' processors from the AMD are the only mobile/laptop class processors that we gonna see from AMD in the next year or two.
jjj - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
- so few mobile SKUs, why no 45W SKUs, no 11CU SKUs- so few desktop APU SKUs and what do they have above 170$ and maybe bellow 100$
- Vega on 7nm in 2019 while Navi also in 2019, area you certain that Navi+ is 2020 or is that an assumption, because if seems that if Vega on 7nm goes everywhere, Navi can't be 2019 and Naxi+ wouldn't be 2020
- 7nm+ being a second gen 7nm is your assumption or AMD stated that. in theory could be what comes after 7nm so 5nm
- where are the 150-250$ new gen GPUs, I get that they are too lazy to meet demand with the current ones but perf per $ is atrocious and they'll kill gaming at this pace
- being surprise that Zen 2 is done is odd, AMD might have Epyc 2 on 7nm in late 2019 so ofc the core is done. And ofc , with that in mind, when you say Zen 2 2019, in consumer at least as server could be different
- where is a Rave Ridge refresh in H2 this year? They really don't have one or
- we don't care about efficiency gains with Pinnacle Ridge, we need higher clocks, better memory support, some minimal SoC level gains and maybe same cache changes but we really just need anything from 4.5GHz to 7GHz- where they land in that range defines how open our wallets are. OK we want more PCIe too and if they could support much faster memory, we would even take more then 8 cores.
Anyway, this seems like a rather incomplete roadmap.
jjj - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
And why so few RR system and mostly 15 in and uphaukionkannel - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Vega 7nm is for mobile first, so that is the priority in gpu. Only the desktop version in 2019.jjj - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Nor quite. Vega on 7nm is a SKU aimed at machine learning that samples in late 2018. That means volume in 2019 and other SKUs later , if there are other SKUs- I am unclear if AMD stated that there are other SKUs or that's an AT assumption.There is a possibility that Navi hits high end in 2019 and Vega lives bellow but that's kinda silly as AMD needs to be in a huge rush to replace Vega with something that is more competitive.
haukionkannel - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
True. The machine learning chips Are the top priority I was just quessing that mobile part would Also get upgrade. My bad...So next Vega goes against machine learning Volta. Maybe Nvidia neither will release normal Volta, only those calculate monsters to AI projects. That would be interesting.
jjj - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 - link
Vega 7nm is 2019 for volumes it seem, Volta V100 will be replaced by something new likely this year and again in 2019- at the very least there will be one update.What Nvidia will do in consumer is unclear as there is no pressure on them to spend on releasing new things. The Intel+AMD part is problematic in laptop so likely they'll address that segment soon with something new.
Pinn - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Lisa is my waifu. I'm fine with my wife and daughter reading this.StevoLincolnite - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Ugh. No Navi until 2019. So AMD's graphics are guaranteed to be terrible for another year.Pinn - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
and nvidia is guaranteed not to release volta for consumers.. fun.Xajel - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
I was really hoping for a low power 8C/16T Ryzen CPU's, these can be used in SFF & laptops with dGPU already... these will be for those who want more CPU performance than GPU, or they need both CPU & GPU power.A5 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
You'll probably have to wait for 7nm for that. Current thermal budgets in laptop designs just aren't going to get you usable 16T performance from 35-45W.neblogai - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Table of Ryzen Mobile CPUs has all Raven Ridge APUs with '1MB per core'. But this is not true for R3 2200U, which still has the same 4MB of L3: http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/ces-...Also- I still hope that is a Banded Kestrel die. On that topic, Joe Macri, when asked about RR use for fanless designs back in October, said it would not work too well, and would have to be clocked real low; when asked if they are building a different chip for that fanless market- answered only broadly- 'we love PCs,.. we want you to find AMD everywhere where PC is'. So I'm not sure- does that still mean only Stoney Ridge (if it qualifies for fanless), or a new die. Just looking at the AMD's below average power efficiency in RR laptops at browsing and playing video- maybe AMD knew they are simply not ready for fanless, and need to put in more work. But I still wish they released Zen 2C/4T 3CU - if not low power- then at least for even cheaper normal laptops. After all- Raven Ridge is not very small die at 210mm2, and a very cheap ~110mm2 die with 2c/4t Zen could also be successful.
T1beriu - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
^This.serendip - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Come on AMD, please come up with something in the <4W TDP range for tablets and ultralights. I'm thinking of something that slots in between Apollo Lake Atom and Intel Y-series but with better GPUs than either of those. Gotta be cheap too.PixyMisa - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
The 2200U looks like the right part, just constrain the TDP further.jjj - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Is there any news on their Nitero buy?jimjamjamie - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
192 core Radeon GPU in 2018, wewPork@III - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
AMD has previously announced that Navy will have a PCI-E 4.0 interface. Either way, in 2018. the new motherboards(4XX series) will be with the current PCI-E 3.0, so it seems logical for Navy to be on the market in the spring of 2019 when the next-generation motherboards (5XX series) will no longer have full maintenance of the PCI-E 4.0.itonamd - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Cool for ultrathin. Great jobstipoo - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
>Radeon 530 discrete GPU, which has 384 compute units based on AMD’s older GCN 1.0 architecture.1.0? Is there even any cost savings to integrating such an old architecture? Not even a later GCN within the same fab...
R3MF - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
"Also included at AMD’s event were a number of side announcements that we will also go into. This includes (but is not limited to): Custom Radeon Vega Designs"Please! More info, including any information on when (if?) AMD intend to ramp production so AIB vendors can do more than periodically run small batches of custom Vega cards through a factory (at greater expense).
Pinn - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Are they going to lie about Vega 7nm as well? Is Volta going to wait for Navi?iwod - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Does Vega 7nm necessarily means GF though? I thought the drop of Vega 12nm+ make sense as it would be competing with Ryzen for GF capacity. Given how AMD is doing well and should be even better now when Meltdown is on Intel.I would have thought moving Radeon back to TSMC would be a much better choice.
Outlander_04 - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
TSMC ? Why?It would also mean higher costs for AMD
Holliday75 - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
Just a guess, but based off his comment he suggested that Radeon would be competing for fab space at GF. If reduced capacity for Zen cuts into profits then the extra costs to move might be worth it.Just basing this off of his comment.
Stuka87 - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
I sure hope Dell comes out with a Precision laptop with AMD stuff. The Inspirons share a lot with the Precisions.Dragonstongue - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
so it sounds like a "refresh" to RX 500 series which was claimed for 2018 is not happening, that sucks TBH..need a new GPU and many of the "good" RX 570-580s are out of stock or low in stock ballooning their prices, need replace my 7870 sometime soon, 460/560 will not cut it, and spending ~$80 more than should is a no go for me to replace it. 1280 shader 256 bit bus with a bump in ROP/TMU at 170w maximum (heavily overclocked) 7870 was THE "mainstream" performance card for its generation, have not seen AMD nor Nv release one that is "comparable" either higher performance (higher price) or less performance (similar price) but nothing to supplant it really.
Good news though, just shows that Zen+ (12nm) is/was not Zen2 (was always to be on 7nm) which I told off many a 3rd party "review" site claiming it would be ^.^
Sttm - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
The GPU roadmap is so sad. AMD barely has a GPU that can top the GTX1080 I bought Summer 2016, and won't have a truly superior offering until 2019.My only hope of a proper upgrade is now Volta, and Nvidia will have no reason not to price gouge with this pathetic competition!
Arbie - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
@Sttm - I'm also sorry that AMD's graphics wasn't a win in 2017. But I wonder what games you could possibly find good enough to warrant moving "up" from a 1080? The tiny increase in quality or FPS would only be meaningful - maybe - on a game you love that has top-notch graphics AND doesn't look good enough on your current card. I only wish there was something even close to that for me.gerz1219 - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
Plenty of modern games play somewhat smoothly at 4K on a 1080 Ti, but could use a bump up in fps. Once you see 4k gaming, it's kind of hard to unsee, which is why I haven't bothered to buy a 1440p gaming panel to complement my professional panel. I'd gladly pay another $700 + the cost of a 4K Gsync/Freesync monitor next year to upgrade the 1080 Ti to something that can crush any game at 4K, but it doesn't look like that product will hit the market in 2019 because AMD is so far behind, and everyone's making tons of money selling GPUs for crypto.sld - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
Those who buy price gouging items walk into it willingly. Gsync vs Freesync, for example.Santoval - Monday, January 8, 2018 - link
I hope you'll get better soon Ian. I don't think I would be able to type a single sentence if I were in your shoes, I have to admit am impressed by your resilience.sharath.naik - Tuesday, January 9, 2018 - link
why no ryzen 7 8 core for mobile?msroadkill612 - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 - link
At last, desk top apuS. Its very exciting.It bears noting, that liquid cooling is getting to be mainstream, and apuS DO allow both cpu & gpu to use a single cost effective cooler - ~$100usd.
Desirable as gpu LC may be, it tends to be impossible/difficult on discrete gpuS physically. LC cooling the APU's gpu is very simple.
The usual chip TDP constraints can be greatly loosened if LC is assumed (as in the ~300w LC vega).
"The Ryzen 5 2400G will run at up to 3.9GHz with 4-cores/8-threads and 11 CUs, a 65W TDP, and a price of $169."
Rumors of apuS w/ 28CUs dont seem fanciful, they seem conservative.
My guess? is most moboS would handle a 180W module in their socket?
An 8GB vega 56 is 210W TDP.
FYI:
"www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-ama,5018.html
Apr 14, 2017 - 1. TDP is not electrical watts (power draw), it's thermal watts. 2. Published processor TDPs are often rounded up to fit a desired specification. For example, AM4 motherboards are specd to run processors with 65W and 95W TDPs. It gives motherboard manufacturers and system builders a thermal framework"
dsplover - Wednesday, January 10, 2018 - link
You will be feeling like crap a long time. Take it easy, you’ll only get worse. Thanks for the info on new desktop w/ GFX.Any info on that is appreciated.
I just got over the flu, caught in Vegas. Lasted 5 weeks and I took the advice and got a flu shot in November. Big help....NOT
pfdman - Friday, January 12, 2018 - link
"To accompany the HP Envy x360, the Lenovo Ideapad 720S, and the Acer Swift 3, Q1 will see the launch of a new HP (under embargo until later this week),"Now that the week is almost up, has anyone seen news as to what that new HP device is?
JoeDuarte - Saturday, January 20, 2018 - link
Did AMD have a solution to the current impossibility of buying an AMD GPU? If we can't deal actually buy their GPUs, AMD might as well not exist, and in a very real sense they don't exist right now.5080 - Sunday, January 21, 2018 - link
Well, they do exist, but all are bought up by coin miners. Great for AMD, not so great for gamers and others that need a fast GPU.5080 - Sunday, January 21, 2018 - link
Hi Ian, are you still going to update this article with Lisa Su's interview and the rest of AMD's announcements?billyswong - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
Typo: The table of Ryzen 5 2200G said Wraith Stealth cooler but the article later said they are bundled with Wraith Spire (non-RGB) coolerET - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
I love "Dark Mode for RGB heathens". I love that heathen feeling. Would have bought one just for that great line. (Or maybe not, but I still like it.)"more nearer" has some redundant redundancy.
mobutu - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
To: AMD, Intel, ARM, whomever,call me when you have a brand new product that's not affected by spectre/meltdown family bug.
Until then, I'm not gonna buy into any of your products.
Byte - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
The current references to upcoming zen are confusing as hell. There is Zen+ 2nd Generation and then Zen 2 coming out. Should leave out "2nd Gen" alltogether.neblogai - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
To fix mistakes in some tables:table on page 2: L3 cache should probably say simply '4MB' for all RR parts.
first table on page 3- two G-series OPNs have C4 (15W) written in their codes. They should be YD2200C5M4MFB + YD2200C5FBBOX and YD2400C5FBBOX + YD2400C5M4MFB, http://products.amd.com/en-us/compare?prod1=148&am...
And I still hope 209.78 mm2 die size for 2200U is wrong- and it is Banded Kestrel die. Or at least that BK will be coming to work as 2200U later.
Dragonstongue - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
I do not see a 39dba being anywhere close to "silent" this is above many others truth be told, if they went with a larger fan probably could have dropped Dba levels down, or if they use fancier blades to reduce air noise, something along that line.But yes, wraith max being priced at $60 is/was insane, I would say would be "fair" to be no more than $40. seeing as so many others are available in this price range that are at least as good if not superior, yes RGB adds some to price, but, the dimensions of the cooler and lack of thermal mass also means it will not cool as well or require a much louder fan/pressure to be "equivalent"
Shame no Vega or RX on 12nm (14nm+) pretty much no where that I can see (Canada) has any RX anything, they have Vega sure, but WAY above MSRP/MSEP, greed of sellers, greed of the makers drives price up and up, just means those who want a "gaming card" end up paying through the nose for it.
Nice to see AMD focus some attention on the ram overclock side of the equation, so one can use baseline higher memory speed or overclock or both to get that much more performance.
All in all, IMO AMD have really pushed forward to being far behind the pack (just barely staying alive) to in many ways being substantially better value and performance for $ spent (cpu/motherboard wise) and at least being competitive gpu wise (no they are not always, but have always been since Radeon 1900 days, sometimes more power more performance, sometimes power limited so not as much performance, cannot win every race, but, being able to "show up" is still very important, unlike say Matrox or Via who CANNOT even race the same race these days)
Sure wish their stock price was showing faith from investors/brokers, from bleeding money to pulling themselves out of the grave in less than 2 years against anything but easy competition says a lot, or at least it should be ^.^
mode_13h - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
GCN (Graphics Core Next) is one of the dumber architecture names out there. I sure hope it doesn't get succeeded by something we end up having to call "Next-Gen".WatcherCK - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
I wish AMD would release an uber APU (hmm just like Intel are doing) with a base performance of say solid 60 fps at 1440p for around 95W or less? I could get this APU and a board ram and a drive for a little more than what a discrete GPU is going for and in theory miners wont want them so they should be in stock for those that want to game...mode_13h - Thursday, February 1, 2018 - link
An APU that powerful would probably attract miners.Also, memory bandwidth is going to be a problem. To achieve that level of performance, the consoles had to use GDDR5. Intel had the right idea of giving the AMD GPU its own stack of HBM2.
phillock - Saturday, February 3, 2018 - link
Thanks to amd, intel drops its prices :)nikon133 - Sunday, February 11, 2018 - link
These new Ryzen APUs could make nice base for next-gen consoles... with some modifications... but then, console APUs are already custom solutions, so that should not be impossible.8 proper Ryzen cores running at over 3GHz and matching up-to-date GPU with sufficient number of CUs... would make quite powerful console at its core. Balanced one, too... it is hardly a secret that current consoles are under-powered on CPU side. Maybe Jaguar cores were necessity for this gen to keep price down, but next gen should be equipped at least with 8x Ryzen 3 cores?
mode_13h - Monday, February 12, 2018 - link
I think jaguar cores are much smaller than Ryzen cores. So, you'd probably be looking at 4 core/8 thread Ryzen APU - not 8 cores.Anyway, these APUs have much weaker iGPUs and much less memory bandwidth than current-gen consoles (excluding Nintendo).
mode_13h - Monday, February 12, 2018 - link
BTW, I'm sure XBox One X kept Jaguar simply because Ryzen wasn't yet ready. There's a very long lead time for this silicon.Also, it seems Jaguar's 28 mm cores are only 3.1 mm^2 per core, whereas Ryzen's 14 nm cores are 44 mm^2 (which sounds like it also includes cache). So, it seems pretty unrealistic to expect consoles will just drop in 8 Ryzen cores where they previously had 8 Jaguars.
forgerone - Sunday, March 11, 2018 - link
This piece seems to mesh quite nicely with the latest bit about ASRock teaming up exclusively with AMD to produce either headless mining cards or MXM for mining.Especially given the nature of the semi-custom Vega gpu that is described.
forgerone - Sunday, March 11, 2018 - link
"This caused two theories: either AMD is using EMIB "AMD does not need EMIB. They have there own mesh as described here: http://www.computermachines.org/joe/publications/p...
Design and Analysis of an APU for Exascale Computing.
Dragonstongue - Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - link
really wish AMD made 12nm refresh for RX 500 series as well as Vega instead of making us wait what 1/2 to 3/4 of a year and HOPE to get a gpu at or close to MSRP (not counting the greed of ODM such as Asus or places such as newegg on top of this pricing)May not be quite as bad for USD folks but it sux a$$ for us CAD or other currency folks automatically paying more than should (and not it is NOT ONLY mining folks causing the price increase, it is GREED more than anything else) for example RX 570/580 I can get them easy enough, but absolutely am not willing/wanting to pay $100+ tax and shipping MORE than should be either, screw that noise, and I do not buy 2nd hand (hoping lasts awhile)