Chuwi is doing good things to disrupt the PC industry. I'm glad to see desktops on the horizon with Kaby-G since Intel's latest NUC needs some competition. Too bad about the 8GB of RAM though. It'd be a fantastic deal at that the $1k price point with 16GB.
It is surprising how good their products are. I have a dual-booting Android\Windows 10 tablet I picked up for $90. It's astonishingly good for the price. The 32GB eMMC is tolerable since their is a PCIe-based SDHC expansion slot I have a 128GB U3 card in, and 2GB RAM gets it by. But the real story is the build quality is shockingly good for something that cost less than $100, and it has been reliable and the Android distribution (4.4) actually got an update out of the box AND CONTINUES to get updates from Chuwi servers. I received an update to Android 7.1 about 6 months ago, not a huge delay in distribution when all things are considered.
Granted, supporting Android x86 is easy because it only needs to be optimized to run on one architecture (Atom\Baytrail) unlike Android ARM where it needs to be optimized for hundreds of SoC's with dozens of different GPU's, modems, etc. But Chuwi has no incentive to continue supporting a 2 year old tablet that honestly isn't making them much money.
I wish some 1st tier companies like *SAMSUNG* would take a queue from these Chinese underdogs and actually support their products through their useful lifetime.
I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised at the price point. It'd be interesting if boxes like this came down in price significantly (~$600) to where it could be considered an entry-level, mostly non-upgradable PC (can't swap out CPU+GPU, memory upgrades only benefitting heavy multitaskers, and storage upgrades limited to smaller form factors).
At $600 it'd be a really competitive buy for people wanting to get into PC gaming, and would have near price parity against the initial cost of owning consolized gaming hardware.
You could easily hit the $600 price with an AMD 2 2400G. The catch is that it will draw twice as much power (expect a mobile edition sooner or later, but with an obvious performance hit). It also will only provide ~1030 levels of graphics (although I suspect that the "1050" may be a slower mobile setup, 65W for both GPU+CPU is extreme). It might even require an AMD "base design" as the first design will require real engineering to get the fan quiet enough for use while cooling 150W (+ everything else) and everybody will copy the first working design.
The price only makes sense as long as the mining craze lasts. But it might still sell as long as it looks tolerable in a living room.
Yeah, I'm aware of the 2400G, but there's a knowledge and lack of self-confidence that acts as a barrier of entry for the general market when it comes to do-it-yourself PCs. (Even though they may not realize it's just adult legos when it comes to piecing together components, and sites like pcpartpicker make choosing compatible parts easy as pie.) Even the NUC, with the supply-your-own RAM and storage space is a barrier of entry to those same peoples.
It'd be nice if the bottom of the barrel PC included specs similar to this for really low prices. It'd really open the market up to new people, even older generations that may just want a new, small, quiet PC for checking e-mail and pictures of family on FaceBook or something, when their PC is actually capably of sustainable performance on low-settings 1080p games.
Even just a Gigabye BRIX formfactor PC with 2200G at a low price would be a great place to start.
HBM2 memory is expensive, but from what I understand, it looks like the Intel CPUs with Vega graphics are really priced as a high-end product. That sort of makes sense - Intel needs to price these as a step-up from an equivalent CPU without Vega, and AMD wants to make money, keeping in mind that every time Intel sells one of these, they might make a sale at Nvidia's expense, but they're also not selling a CPU.
I spent about $600 in January and got a pre-built Ryzen 5 with a discrete RX 580. Its not perfect (and came with a spinning HDD, prompting an additional $200 for me to get a fast SSD), but I feel like it was a better value, since it's just a desktop tower, so I can upgrade as I see fit.
I would not even think of buying Chuwi product for $999 - I have HiPro 8 tablet and it basically a piece of junk. I love what Intel did with EMIB but this product at this price discredits but Intel and AMD. At $99 the HiPro 8 was worth the risk - but not at $999.
As much as I normally roll my eyes at small SSD + HDD setups, a 128GB SSD by itself is too small for a gaming system when a few titles have already crossed the 50GB mark. They need to either raise the minimum to a 256GB model, or bundle a 500GB/1TB HDD in with the 128GB SSD model.
I can sort of understand the pricing (since Intel is positioning its chips with Vega graphics as "premium"), but asking a customer to fork over $1k for a computer with 128GB of storage seems like a cruel joke (particularly when there's just 8GB of RAM). How much of a "gaming PC" can it be when the SSD will be 50% full after you install a couple games?
Any way you slice it, $1k is a "premium" price for a desktop PC these days, and 128GB is VERY cramped. I'd have been OK even if they found room for a 2.5" drive bay and threw in a 1TB HDD alongside the SSD, but this just seems like an artificially low "entry price" - I'm getting that it'll be at least $1200 or so for the cheapest model that people will actually want to buy.
I would not just blame this on Intel - for one thing it unknown currently the price of the 8809G EMIB is but a standard 4 Core U CPU is around $300 - The Vega and 4G HGM2 memory is probably at least $100 possibly even $200 or more.
I have HiPro 8 and quality of tablet is as bad as it gets - it only has 32G of ram and Windows 10 does update - I should find a way to remove the very limited Android OS for the system to gain more space - but too be honest I don't think it worth the time.
I would not say that Vega graphics is a premium - if so than it large amount cost above $300+ for CPU alone. One thing I just notice about this Chuwa is that they when cheap on CPU part - this the low end i5 part - unlikely high end component in Intel's NUC. But the cpu is better than the i5 U mobile product but less than the i7 U which is $400
Vega graphics is not really that premium - I seen a video of XPS 15 2in1 with the fastest but not as fast in the one in NUC - do 4K at 60 FPS with GTA 5. But nothing like NVidia 1080's and nothing like the up and coming 11 series.
Indeed, the whole point of these SKUs is to reduce board space over a discrete CPU and GPU option. So in a laptop, or NUC, they make sense. This system isn't that small, I think separate components could have been fitted in with some thought, at a lower overall price. Using this SKU does remove that effort though, which fits in with how Chewi work.
In long run, I believe the technology of EMIB, will also lower the cost - and also increase the reliability but at the cost of benefits of upgradeability. But I don't see that an issue with laptops. When I purchase my XPS 15 2in1, I planned on purchasing what I intended without the desires for upgrading. Only in my 4th Gen Y50 did I change the Hard Drive to SSD and increase Memory.
I wouldn't buy anything expensive from Chuwi. Their product support is awful. For example, there are at least three versions of the Lapbook 14.1 that was reviewed here on Anandtech. Some have slower storage, some don't have the BIOS option to install Linux, and some don't have the empty M.2 port. As far as I can tell, these are not different models, but rather changes made after the initial production run that make the shipping laptops worse than the ones reviewers received. There are numerous unresolved threads on their support forums about these issues.
It's a nice looking box, but ultimately you are getting XB1X level specifications (better CPU, significantly worse GPU, but with Windows) for twice the price.
Indeed the Core i5-8305G rates the GPU at 1011MHz and 20 compute units, in terms of theoretical performance it competes with RX560 cards. It surely is vastly more expensive than the Ryzen APUs. Sure, it has 9 more CUs than a similarly-65W 2400G, so it's faster, despite the latter running at 1250MHz.
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25 Comments
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PeachNCream - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
Chuwi is doing good things to disrupt the PC industry. I'm glad to see desktops on the horizon with Kaby-G since Intel's latest NUC needs some competition. Too bad about the 8GB of RAM though. It'd be a fantastic deal at that the $1k price point with 16GB.Samus - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
It is surprising how good their products are. I have a dual-booting Android\Windows 10 tablet I picked up for $90. It's astonishingly good for the price. The 32GB eMMC is tolerable since their is a PCIe-based SDHC expansion slot I have a 128GB U3 card in, and 2GB RAM gets it by. But the real story is the build quality is shockingly good for something that cost less than $100, and it has been reliable and the Android distribution (4.4) actually got an update out of the box AND CONTINUES to get updates from Chuwi servers. I received an update to Android 7.1 about 6 months ago, not a huge delay in distribution when all things are considered.Granted, supporting Android x86 is easy because it only needs to be optimized to run on one architecture (Atom\Baytrail) unlike Android ARM where it needs to be optimized for hundreds of SoC's with dozens of different GPU's, modems, etc. But Chuwi has no incentive to continue supporting a 2 year old tablet that honestly isn't making them much money.
I wish some 1st tier companies like *SAMSUNG* would take a queue from these Chinese underdogs and actually support their products through their useful lifetime.
sprockkets - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
Which model? I never thought they would have updated the android side ever.sprockkets - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
Also even though it is x86 it still needs quite a bit of work to get it to work with full hardware support.JoeyJoJo123 - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised at the price point. It'd be interesting if boxes like this came down in price significantly (~$600) to where it could be considered an entry-level, mostly non-upgradable PC (can't swap out CPU+GPU, memory upgrades only benefitting heavy multitaskers, and storage upgrades limited to smaller form factors).At $600 it'd be a really competitive buy for people wanting to get into PC gaming, and would have near price parity against the initial cost of owning consolized gaming hardware.
wumpus - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
You could easily hit the $600 price with an AMD 2 2400G. The catch is that it will draw twice as much power (expect a mobile edition sooner or later, but with an obvious performance hit). It also will only provide ~1030 levels of graphics (although I suspect that the "1050" may be a slower mobile setup, 65W for both GPU+CPU is extreme). It might even require an AMD "base design" as the first design will require real engineering to get the fan quiet enough for use while cooling 150W (+ everything else) and everybody will copy the first working design.The price only makes sense as long as the mining craze lasts. But it might still sell as long as it looks tolerable in a living room.
JoeyJoJo123 - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
Yeah, I'm aware of the 2400G, but there's a knowledge and lack of self-confidence that acts as a barrier of entry for the general market when it comes to do-it-yourself PCs. (Even though they may not realize it's just adult legos when it comes to piecing together components, and sites like pcpartpicker make choosing compatible parts easy as pie.) Even the NUC, with the supply-your-own RAM and storage space is a barrier of entry to those same peoples.It'd be nice if the bottom of the barrel PC included specs similar to this for really low prices. It'd really open the market up to new people, even older generations that may just want a new, small, quiet PC for checking e-mail and pictures of family on FaceBook or something, when their PC is actually capably of sustainable performance on low-settings 1080p games.
Even just a Gigabye BRIX formfactor PC with 2200G at a low price would be a great place to start.
psychobriggsy - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
Since when was the 2400G 150W?sing_electric - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
HBM2 memory is expensive, but from what I understand, it looks like the Intel CPUs with Vega graphics are really priced as a high-end product. That sort of makes sense - Intel needs to price these as a step-up from an equivalent CPU without Vega, and AMD wants to make money, keeping in mind that every time Intel sells one of these, they might make a sale at Nvidia's expense, but they're also not selling a CPU.I spent about $600 in January and got a pre-built Ryzen 5 with a discrete RX 580. Its not perfect (and came with a spinning HDD, prompting an additional $200 for me to get a fast SSD), but I feel like it was a better value, since it's just a desktop tower, so I can upgrade as I see fit.
MadHUN74 - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
will the thermals be better? same as the Intel NUC? I like the form factor of the NUC but worry about throttling.HStewart - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
I would not even think of buying Chuwi product for $999 - I have HiPro 8 tablet and it basically a piece of junk. I love what Intel did with EMIB but this product at this price discredits but Intel and AMD. At $99 the HiPro 8 was worth the risk - but not at $999.dgingeri - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
So....Chibi version of an old style Mac Pro?
SaolDan - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
LOLtipoo - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
More GPU than you can get in any Mac until you get to 27" iMacCome on, Timmy ಠ_ಠ
DanNeely - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
As much as I normally roll my eyes at small SSD + HDD setups, a 128GB SSD by itself is too small for a gaming system when a few titles have already crossed the 50GB mark. They need to either raise the minimum to a 256GB model, or bundle a 500GB/1TB HDD in with the 128GB SSD model.dromoxen - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
Nice neat small machine but compared to say a SFF pc with i3+1050t1 the price seems too high.But it will do well ...
iwod - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
it looks like the Mini Mac Pro CheeseGater.sing_electric - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
I can sort of understand the pricing (since Intel is positioning its chips with Vega graphics as "premium"), but asking a customer to fork over $1k for a computer with 128GB of storage seems like a cruel joke (particularly when there's just 8GB of RAM). How much of a "gaming PC" can it be when the SSD will be 50% full after you install a couple games?Any way you slice it, $1k is a "premium" price for a desktop PC these days, and 128GB is VERY cramped. I'd have been OK even if they found room for a 2.5" drive bay and threw in a 1TB HDD alongside the SSD, but this just seems like an artificially low "entry price" - I'm getting that it'll be at least $1200 or so for the cheapest model that people will actually want to buy.
HStewart - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
I would not just blame this on Intel - for one thing it unknown currently the price of the 8809G EMIB is but a standard 4 Core U CPU is around $300 - The Vega and 4G HGM2 memory is probably at least $100 possibly even $200 or more.I have HiPro 8 and quality of tablet is as bad as it gets - it only has 32G of ram and Windows 10 does update - I should find a way to remove the very limited Android OS for the system to gain more space - but too be honest I don't think it worth the time.
I would not say that Vega graphics is a premium - if so than it large amount cost above $300+ for CPU alone. One thing I just notice about this Chuwa is that they when cheap on CPU part - this the low end i5 part - unlikely high end component in Intel's NUC. But the cpu is better than the i5 U mobile product but less than the i7 U which is $400
https://ark.intel.com/products/124969/Intel-Core-i...
Vega graphics is not really that premium - I seen a video of XPS 15 2in1 with the fastest but not as fast in the one in NUC - do 4K at 60 FPS with GTA 5. But nothing like NVidia 1080's and nothing like the up and coming 11 series.
psychobriggsy - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
Indeed, the whole point of these SKUs is to reduce board space over a discrete CPU and GPU option. So in a laptop, or NUC, they make sense. This system isn't that small, I think separate components could have been fitted in with some thought, at a lower overall price. Using this SKU does remove that effort though, which fits in with how Chewi work.HStewart - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
In long run, I believe the technology of EMIB, will also lower the cost - and also increase the reliability but at the cost of benefits of upgradeability. But I don't see that an issue with laptops. When I purchase my XPS 15 2in1, I planned on purchasing what I intended without the desires for upgrading. Only in my 4th Gen Y50 did I change the Hard Drive to SSD and increase Memory.cfenton - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
I wouldn't buy anything expensive from Chuwi. Their product support is awful. For example, there are at least three versions of the Lapbook 14.1 that was reviewed here on Anandtech. Some have slower storage, some don't have the BIOS option to install Linux, and some don't have the empty M.2 port. As far as I can tell, these are not different models, but rather changes made after the initial production run that make the shipping laptops worse than the ones reviewers received. There are numerous unresolved threads on their support forums about these issues.boozed - Monday, April 9, 2018 - link
GRAAAAAAARGH and so on and so forth.psychobriggsy - Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - link
It's a nice looking box, but ultimately you are getting XB1X level specifications (better CPU, significantly worse GPU, but with Windows) for twice the price.Indeed the Core i5-8305G rates the GPU at 1011MHz and 20 compute units, in terms of theoretical performance it competes with RX560 cards. It surely is vastly more expensive than the Ryzen APUs. Sure, it has 9 more CUs than a similarly-65W 2400G, so it's faster, despite the latter running at 1250MHz.
temptation1234 - Saturday, June 2, 2018 - link
Really Nice!