Could be Intel selling off old technology preparing for new technology - as part of this Toms Hardware reports that a former Intel employee try to take some of 3D X Point technology to Micron.
ML sticks are old version for development - replace by new in house better.
Xeon Phi is older version 200 version and will be replace by Xe stuff.
Some times it best for company to clear out the junk for new technology.
Intel has made the largest investment in new Fabs - so Micron fab must be out of date - too bad Micron - you don't get 3D X Point from former employee.
You forgot the revolution of future tech: 5G and IoT. The rest are just peanuts compared to the R&D spent on those 2 projects. Must have been old tech too.
Mobile is this year and Pessimist report server / desktop not until 2021/2022 - which also 2021 is Intel's 7 nm - I don't believe nm between different foundries mean much Intel 10nm is suppose more dense than others 7nm. and it not dead as some think.
Intel 10nm is less dense than TSMC 7nm when it finally goes into production. However TSMC has already started 5nm production which is twice as dense... So Intel is now a full process generation behind TSMC. If desktops stay on 14nm then AMD will have 2 process generations advantage next year!
@HStewart ... "I believe intel still has 5G in areas just not in some areas"
Yes while Intel has ended it 5G modem effort, they are still working with the network equipment companies and cell service providers on 5G network infrastructure hardware.
Best to get information directly from Intel. > Intel: The Specre and Meldown vulnerabilities will not delete or alter your data. > Reality: They allow stealing your data and identity and coupled with Rowhammer and over vulns they even allow ALTERING the data.
> Intel: It's not just us affected by security vulnerabilities, others like AMD and ARM are too. > Reality: They are dragging competitors through the mud. The number of Intel vulnerabilities is 5 to 1 vs AMD or ARM.
> Intel: We have shipped 10nm in 2018. > Reality: Intel has pushed one OEM to build one 10nm laptop in a with 2 cores and no graphics that consumes more power than 14nm version and is release with no publicity in a market nobody knows about.
> Intel: 5G modems are going great. We skipped our first release because we have a newer better modem version. > Reality: Apple steals Qualcomm modem secrets to give to Intel to make them work. Intel cannot even make them work with stolen trade secrets. Apple is force to deal with Qualcomm because the Intel 5G modems are just photoshopped bluffs.
Exactly. At this point, everything Intel marketing/PR puts out should be treated as a complete crock of crap, unless physical proof can be provided that it isn't.
What amazing new technology does Intel have up its sleeve??? You always claim that any move by Intel is amazing and super smart, no matter how bad it looks. Quark is dead. Itanium is dead. Phi is dead. Intel modems are dead. Phone SoCs are dead. Atom on lifesupport. Intel foundry is dead. 10nm is mostly dead given most 10nm fabs have been repurposed.
Meanwhile AMD is on a roll and Arm chips have bridged the performance gap to SkyLake. But in your book Intel is doing better than ever!
Sunny Cove, Fovores and Xe are very new technology
Most exiting is Sunny Cove architexture designed. Something big is coming with it - if you look closely at the design you will notice they added second Store unit in additional to existing Store unit along with two existing load unit. Further more looking closer at the designed each load unit is join with it's own store unit - which means they can run in parallel
As for as the Intel foundry and 10nm, it not dead - 28 billion invested and 10nm
Stop making future based on past. I am an optimist and believe that something great is around the corner. Also notebook sales are up and just because desktop sales are decreasing each year means that Intel is dying - just involving toward the future.
None of those are new or revolutionary. AMD and NVidia do decent graphics cards already, you can buy them today. TSMC sells billions of chips using advanced packaging technologies today. Sunny Cove is just an iteration of SkyLake (which was itself a minor iteration etc). Evolution, not revolution.
If we get 5GHz desktop chips in 10nm then you could say it is alive.
Well I'm an optimist too and I am pretty sure that AMD will do extremely well in the next few years. Similarly we'll see lots of Arm servers on 7nm and 5nm soon.
HStewart its architecture NOT architexture replace the X with a C ... sunny cove. is NOT a new architecture.. is just an update the the existing architecture intel has been using for what 10, 15 years now ???? intel can spend all the billions they want.. it still may not fix the issues they are now having. " Stop making future based on past. I am an optimist and believe that something great is around the corner " of course you do.. cause thats all you can see when it comes to intel... but intel has also been promising this for the last few years...
Micron is currently the only manufacturer of 3DXpoint until Intel starts their own production.
Here are more details of what was stolen...."Chipzilla has said its electronic security system prevented Rivers from copying its "top secret" file. But the chip biz claims Rivers did manage to copy "a highly sensitive compilation of Intel personnel information," which is to say a spreadsheet with the contact details of more than 3,000 Intel employees." https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/25/intel_cou...
For someone who make so many pro Intel comments, you don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about. lntel's agreement with Micron included an option for Micron to buy Intel out of the Lehi Fab, Micron chose to exercise that option, Intel has no option but to be bought out. As far as being out of date, it is the only fab that can currently make 3Dxpoint, and is where gen2 of the memory was developed and it will go into production later this year. Intel is going to continue to get it's supply from that factory for the next couple of years, both gen1 and gen2 while they refit a mostly idle factory in New Mexico to produce 3DXpoint as well as develop future generations of the memory.
Competition from AMD, a lack of progress on sub-14nm production, and weak demand in the desktop market are probably all putting the squeeze on Intel. Failing to penetrate into the phone space by botching their mobile SoC a bit back can't have helped the situation. That's too significant to overlook given how little reason there is to even own an x86 PC these days. They should probably just start contracting TSMC or even Samsung to produce their chips at this point since Intel's own foundries are using Soviet-era manufacturing methods when compared to their competitors.
Sure that must be why Intel keeps buying 3Dxpoint from Micron for the next few years, and didn't release 10nm. They just love old out of date fabrication technologies!
Weak demand in the desktop market is good for Intel. That's where AMD is the strongest and Intel is the weakest. Weak demand for laptops and servers would be bad for Intel.
This was entirely in Micron's hand. Micron could buy Intel out any time Micron decided it wanted the fab more than a pile of cash. Intel has no say in the timing.
Intel is not really getting rid of that much, the 5G modem situation is a complex issues involving at least 3 future 100 companies and regards IP and some presumable related back room deals. Do this and we won't sue you type thing not crazy conspiracy level as far as I know. The ML sticks are getting going in a new direction in regards to some key factors in the new version but they are far from simply dropping it. Xeon Phi is presumable getting replaces with intel Xe. IoT as we know it can die and is too diversified to be a real money maker compared to their cpu business imo. And 3d Xpoint seems to be doing ok too well. I've read something about a second gen on the works and they don't have to make the silicone themself.
Though regardless if they dropped all these projects it's still probably in the mid to low signal digits of the total company expanses.
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sgeocla - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Sounds like Intel is preparing for some harsh times. Selling & slashing projects left and right: 5G modems, Xeon Phi, ML sticks, IoT, 3D Xpoint ...HStewart - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Could be Intel selling off old technology preparing for new technology - as part of this Toms Hardware reports that a former Intel employee try to take some of 3D X Point technology to Micron.ML sticks are old version for development - replace by new in house better.
Xeon Phi is older version 200 version and will be replace by Xe stuff.
Some times it best for company to clear out the junk for new technology.
Intel has made the largest investment in new Fabs - so Micron fab must be out of date - too bad Micron - you don't get 3D X Point from former employee.
sgeocla - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
You forgot the revolution of future tech: 5G and IoT. The rest are just peanuts compared to the R&D spent on those 2 projects.Must have been old tech too.
HStewart - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
I believe intel still has 5G in areas just not in some areasJust because one product is cancel in IoT does not mean Intel is not looking forward
The technology in Forores is something that defiantly part of the past - have 3d layer of chips of different Technogym.
I am an optimize and not pessimist like a lot of gamers here especially when it comes to Intel products.
HStewart - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
For the pessimist, here is the latest - Intel is going forward not backwardshttps://www.anandtech.com/show/14311/intel-process...
Mobile is this year and Pessimist report server / desktop not until 2021/2022 - which also 2021 is Intel's 7 nm - I don't believe nm between different foundries mean much Intel 10nm is suppose more dense than others 7nm. and it not dead as some think.
Wilco1 - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Intel 10nm is less dense than TSMC 7nm when it finally goes into production. However TSMC has already started 5nm production which is twice as dense... So Intel is now a full process generation behind TSMC. If desktops stay on 14nm then AMD will have 2 process generations advantage next year!ilt24 - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
@HStewart ... "I believe intel still has 5G in areas just not in some areas"Yes while Intel has ended it 5G modem effort, they are still working with the network equipment companies and cell service providers on 5G network infrastructure hardware.
HStewart - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Well obvious Intel does not think so - they have a showing in COMPUTEX 2019https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/intel-com...
On both IoT and 5G.
There is a lot of misinformation about Intel floating in forums - best to get information directly from Intel.
sgeocla - Thursday, May 9, 2019 - link
Best to get information directly from Intel.> Intel: The Specre and Meldown vulnerabilities will not delete or alter your data.
> Reality: They allow stealing your data and identity and coupled with Rowhammer and over vulns they even allow ALTERING the data.
> Intel: It's not just us affected by security vulnerabilities, others like AMD and ARM are too.
> Reality: They are dragging competitors through the mud. The number of Intel vulnerabilities is 5 to 1 vs AMD or ARM.
> Intel: We have shipped 10nm in 2018.
> Reality: Intel has pushed one OEM to build one 10nm laptop in a with 2 cores and no graphics that consumes more power than 14nm version and is release with no publicity in a market nobody knows about.
> Intel: 5G modems are going great. We skipped our first release because we have a newer better modem version.
> Reality: Apple steals Qualcomm modem secrets to give to Intel to make them work. Intel cannot even make them work with stolen trade secrets. Apple is force to deal with Qualcomm because the Intel 5G modems are just photoshopped bluffs.
Haawser - Thursday, May 9, 2019 - link
Exactly. At this point, everything Intel marketing/PR puts out should be treated as a complete crock of crap, unless physical proof can be provided that it isn't.Wilco1 - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
What amazing new technology does Intel have up its sleeve??? You always claim that any move by Intel is amazing and super smart, no matter how bad it looks. Quark is dead. Itanium is dead. Phi is dead. Intel modems are dead. Phone SoCs are dead. Atom on lifesupport. Intel foundry is dead. 10nm is mostly dead given most 10nm fabs have been repurposed.Meanwhile AMD is on a roll and Arm chips have bridged the performance gap to SkyLake. But in your book Intel is doing better than ever!
HStewart - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Sunny Cove, Fovores and Xe are very new technologyMost exiting is Sunny Cove architexture designed. Something big is coming with it - if you look closely at the design you will notice they added second Store unit in additional to existing Store unit along with two existing load unit. Further more looking closer at the designed each load unit is join with it's own store unit - which means they can run in parallel
As for as the Intel foundry and 10nm, it not dead - 28 billion invested and 10nm
Stop making future based on past. I am an optimist and believe that something great is around the corner. Also notebook sales are up and just because desktop sales are decreasing each year means that Intel is dying - just involving toward the future.
Wilco1 - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
None of those are new or revolutionary. AMD and NVidia do decent graphics cards already, you can buy them today. TSMC sells billions of chips using advanced packaging technologies today. Sunny Cove is just an iteration of SkyLake (which was itself a minor iteration etc). Evolution, not revolution.If we get 5GHz desktop chips in 10nm then you could say it is alive.
Well I'm an optimist too and I am pretty sure that AMD will do extremely well in the next few years. Similarly we'll see lots of Arm servers on 7nm and 5nm soon.
Korguz - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
HStewart its architecture NOT architexture replace the X with a C ... sunny cove. is NOT a new architecture.. is just an update the the existing architecture intel has been using for what 10, 15 years now ???? intel can spend all the billions they want.. it still may not fix the issues they are now having. " Stop making future based on past. I am an optimist and believe that something great is around the corner " of course you do.. cause thats all you can see when it comes to intel... but intel has also been promising this for the last few years...Adramtech - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Micron is currently the only manufacturer of 3DXpoint until Intel starts their own production.Here are more details of what was stolen...."Chipzilla has said its electronic security system prevented Rivers from copying its "top secret" file. But the chip biz claims Rivers did manage to copy "a highly sensitive compilation of Intel personnel information," which is to say a spreadsheet with the contact details of more than 3,000 Intel employees." https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/25/intel_cou...
ilt24 - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
@HStewart ... "so Micron fab must be out of date"For someone who make so many pro Intel comments, you don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about. lntel's agreement with Micron included an option for Micron to buy Intel out of the Lehi Fab, Micron chose to exercise that option, Intel has no option but to be bought out. As far as being out of date, it is the only fab that can currently make 3Dxpoint, and is where gen2 of the memory was developed and it will go into production later this year. Intel is going to continue to get it's supply from that factory for the next couple of years, both gen1 and gen2 while they refit a mostly idle factory in New Mexico to produce 3DXpoint as well as develop future generations of the memory.
PeachNCream - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Competition from AMD, a lack of progress on sub-14nm production, and weak demand in the desktop market are probably all putting the squeeze on Intel. Failing to penetrate into the phone space by botching their mobile SoC a bit back can't have helped the situation. That's too significant to overlook given how little reason there is to even own an x86 PC these days. They should probably just start contracting TSMC or even Samsung to produce their chips at this point since Intel's own foundries are using Soviet-era manufacturing methods when compared to their competitors.HStewart - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Micron lab is old technologyWilco1 - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Sure that must be why Intel keeps buying 3Dxpoint from Micron for the next few years, and didn't release 10nm. They just love old out of date fabrication technologies!PeachNCream - Thursday, May 9, 2019 - link
Sorry, I'm having trouble hearing you over the rattle of the Intel employee badge hanging around your neck.drothgery - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Weak demand in the desktop market is good for Intel. That's where AMD is the strongest and Intel is the weakest. Weak demand for laptops and servers would be bad for Intel.DanNeely - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
This was entirely in Micron's hand. Micron could buy Intel out any time Micron decided it wanted the fab more than a pile of cash. Intel has no say in the timing.Reflex - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Yes, this.Reflex - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
As pointed out in the article, this was initiated by Micron, not Intel, and was part of the joint venture agreement from the beginning.Arsenica - Wednesday, May 8, 2019 - link
Intel's flash production is apparently moving to their New Mexico fab according to job postings.Skeptical123 - Saturday, May 11, 2019 - link
Intel is not really getting rid of that much, the 5G modem situation is a complex issues involving at least 3 future 100 companies and regards IP and some presumable related back room deals. Do this and we won't sue you type thing not crazy conspiracy level as far as I know. The ML sticks are getting going in a new direction in regards to some key factors in the new version but they are far from simply dropping it. Xeon Phi is presumable getting replaces with intel Xe. IoT as we know it can die and is too diversified to be a real money maker compared to their cpu business imo. And 3d Xpoint seems to be doing ok too well. I've read something about a second gen on the works and they don't have to make the silicone themself.Though regardless if they dropped all these projects it's still probably in the mid to low signal digits of the total company expanses.