Same-size competition for nucs. I like it. But does it seriously cap at 32GB capacity for RAM? 2x32GB SO-DIMMs aren't expensive anymore, and are relatively mainstream. 64GB support should hopefully be a firmware update away.
There are some pfSense modules that like to gobble up lots of memory. Squid (caches webpage content, more memory = more content in cache) and Snort (intrusion detection/security type stuff, having more memory overhead can help it compare incoming packets to more known bad actors and act before getting taken down) come to mind.
Yeah, 64GB isn't a common setup, but it's not an unreasonable thing to want. This is, after all, a niche product category. People will want it to be able to perform for their niche use-case.
I run both, I've got 8GB in my pfsense box and memory use rarely tops 15%. Unless you are making a huge ram drive to store the squid cache and snort data there isn't use for that level of memory in pfsense unless you're running a custom package like a database (totally crazy) or it's a enterprise install with thousands of users.
Even 32GB on a pfsense box would be crazy out of the ordinary outside a enterprise installation with thousands of users and VPN clients. You need look no further than netgate's appliances to see this with their most expensive Xeon based pfsense box coming with 16gb of memory and maxing out at 32gb. https://www.netgate.com/products/appliances/
32GB is the most I can see at the moment. pfBlocker's TLD feature can eat up to 8GB+ (especially if you want to filter adult contect) and Suricata takes up between 600Mb-800Mb per interface (at least on my installs) including VLANs. That means with half a dozen VLANs and everything turned up for Suricata and pfBlocker I can see it in the low to mid teens. Maybe there is a Squid config that can eat up a couple of gigs? At that point maybe 32GB is useful, otherwise 16GB would suffice.
It's an APU limitation so it won't be fixed with SW/FW. Single channel only supporting 32GB RAM. These parts don't usually go into the kind of systems that need more than that. They're 6-25W parts that are aimed at low power markets. If you need more RAM you probably want a beefier CPU too.
Also "AMD Ryzen Embedded V1000/R1000 with up to four AMD Zen cores" sounds weird, AMD doesn't list anything with more than 2 cores in their embedded offering: https://www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/emb...
I also much prefer Intel to Realtek for the NICs but it's been a while since I've encountered actual problems with Realtek NICs with pfSense. Maybe since 2.1 or 2.2.
I don't see the point of these forms factors. Either get a laptop or a real desktop. I don't see the point of going in between. You really can't fit a micro ATX tower? Get a laptop. At least you'll have something portable.
Most embedded applications don't require this kind of processing power however. Also the connector placement (on both sides of the board) makes it harder to integrate to a product, unless you are going to use harnesses.
I don't think you have any understanding of what "embedded applications" means or covers or you wouldn't say that. There are plenty of applications that would benefit from that kind of horsepower in that format.
Where do you hang your mini tower on the wall with your digital signage? Where do you put your mini tower next to the CNC machine that it doesn't get filled up with chips and cutting oil?
Things this size are great for offices, especially if you have multiple monitors on VESA mounts. HP EliteDesk Mini's can be configured to sit behind your monitors on a VESA mount so you use up even less space.
Where did I say anything about building it from parts? I replied to you saying you don't understand this form factor with saying that size (form factor) is great for offices. I also have never seen anything larger than the things like the EliteDesk Mini's with VESA mounts. We have multiple micro tower (11 liter volume) computers in my office and they don't have VESA mounts. The idea of the Mini's is to hid them behind the monitor.
This would be nano-itx. I believe the Lenovo Tiny's are nano-itx. Dell has them as well. They slide right behind monitors on small VESA mounts. Firewalls are built on it. We actually use them all the time.
The company I work for has a couple HP EliteDesk Minis and as we replace the desktops everyone is going to be getting the Mini's. Fred666 just doesn't believe the people who work in the industry.
I work for a company that makes interactive installations for museums, education centers, etc. The space we have to put our technology is usually very limited (it must be hidden away, close to screens/other input/output but also easy to access). This in practice means NUC-class or similar size most of the time.
As for processing power: it depends, sometimes all we need is something that can smoothly drive a rich web UI (native apps would be to expensive to develop) other times we need to be able to drive fully 3D content (written in things like Unity).
This form factor and power class in many cases is a good fit for our purposes.
The board is much smaller than the power supply in your MiniATX case, and can't even use a ATX power supply. It also has no ATX-compatible mounting points, nor a ATX-compatible slot cover plate.
It is also only 1/6 the footprint, which would make it pretty silly to put it in there.
When students seek Reliable Nursing Paper Writing Services, they are assured of receiving Best Nursing Writing Services and Legit Nursing Research Paper Writing Services that meets all their writing needs. https://researchpapers247.com/buy-nursing-research...
We’ve updated our terms. By continuing to use the site and/or by logging into your account, you agree to the Site’s updated Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.
36 Comments
Back to Article
Unashamed_unoriginal_username_x86 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
The Raspberry π just got a whole lot deadlier...... They're not even the same size, why am I making this joke );
James5mith - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Same-size competition for nucs. I like it. But does it seriously cap at 32GB capacity for RAM? 2x32GB SO-DIMMs aren't expensive anymore, and are relatively mainstream. 64GB support should hopefully be a firmware update away.PhysicsNurd - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
What in the world could you possibly need 64GB of ram for on a board like this?JoeyJoJo123 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
There are some pfSense modules that like to gobble up lots of memory. Squid (caches webpage content, more memory = more content in cache) and Snort (intrusion detection/security type stuff, having more memory overhead can help it compare incoming packets to more known bad actors and act before getting taken down) come to mind.Yeah, 64GB isn't a common setup, but it's not an unreasonable thing to want. This is, after all, a niche product category. People will want it to be able to perform for their niche use-case.
rahvin - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
I run both, I've got 8GB in my pfsense box and memory use rarely tops 15%. Unless you are making a huge ram drive to store the squid cache and snort data there isn't use for that level of memory in pfsense unless you're running a custom package like a database (totally crazy) or it's a enterprise install with thousands of users.Even 32GB on a pfsense box would be crazy out of the ordinary outside a enterprise installation with thousands of users and VPN clients. You need look no further than netgate's appliances to see this with their most expensive Xeon based pfsense box coming with 16gb of memory and maxing out at 32gb. https://www.netgate.com/products/appliances/
crazyhandpuppet - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
32GB is the most I can see at the moment. pfBlocker's TLD feature can eat up to 8GB+ (especially if you want to filter adult contect) and Suricata takes up between 600Mb-800Mb per interface (at least on my installs) including VLANs. That means with half a dozen VLANs and everything turned up for Suricata and pfBlocker I can see it in the low to mid teens. Maybe there is a Squid config that can eat up a couple of gigs? At that point maybe 32GB is useful, otherwise 16GB would suffice.close - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
It's an APU limitation so it won't be fixed with SW/FW. Single channel only supporting 32GB RAM. These parts don't usually go into the kind of systems that need more than that. They're 6-25W parts that are aimed at low power markets. If you need more RAM you probably want a beefier CPU too.Also "AMD Ryzen Embedded V1000/R1000 with up to four AMD Zen cores" sounds weird, AMD doesn't list anything with more than 2 cores in their embedded offering: https://www.amd.com/en/products/specifications/emb...
Fulljack - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
https://www.amd.com/en/products/embedded-ryzen-v10...the V1000 embedded processor offer 4 cores with SMT
5080 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Surprising that it doesn't support faster SO-DIMM's especially since it supports multiple 4k displays for signage applications.b1ghen - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
And again it fails by using Realtek LAN, dual Intel NIC and it would have been a sweet tiny and capable pfSense machinecrazyhandpuppet - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
I also much prefer Intel to Realtek for the NICs but it's been a while since I've encountered actual problems with Realtek NICs with pfSense. Maybe since 2.1 or 2.2.chophshiy - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
The table says HDMI on the BP, but the pictures appear to show 3 x DisplayPort.fred666 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
I don't see the point of these forms factors. Either get a laptop or a real desktop. I don't see the point of going in between. You really can't fit a micro ATX tower? Get a laptop. At least you'll have something portable.kb9fcc - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
For *embedded* applications. Totally different set of users. And no, a micro tower or laptop is not an option.fred666 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Most embedded applications don't require this kind of processing power however.Also the connector placement (on both sides of the board) makes it harder to integrate to a product, unless you are going to use harnesses.
rahvin - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
I don't think you have any understanding of what "embedded applications" means or covers or you wouldn't say that. There are plenty of applications that would benefit from that kind of horsepower in that format.rrinker - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Where do you hang your mini tower on the wall with your digital signage? Where do you put your mini tower next to the CNC machine that it doesn't get filled up with chips and cutting oil?fred666 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
At the same location that you would put this.This is not an industrial board by the way.
schujj07 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Things this size are great for offices, especially if you have multiple monitors on VESA mounts. HP EliteDesk Mini's can be configured to sit behind your monitors on a VESA mount so you use up even less space.fred666 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
you can get a much larger PC than that and still get it VESA mountedfred666 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
anyway offices will get pre-built PCs from Dell or Lenovo, not assemble their own from parts using this.mrvco - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
i.e. "I like big PCs an´ I can not lie."schujj07 - Thursday, February 27, 2020 - link
Where did I say anything about building it from parts? I replied to you saying you don't understand this form factor with saying that size (form factor) is great for offices. I also have never seen anything larger than the things like the EliteDesk Mini's with VESA mounts. We have multiple micro tower (11 liter volume) computers in my office and they don't have VESA mounts. The idea of the Mini's is to hid them behind the monitor.crazyhandpuppet - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
This would be nano-itx. I believe the Lenovo Tiny's are nano-itx. Dell has them as well. They slide right behind monitors on small VESA mounts. Firewalls are built on it. We actually use them all the time.schujj07 - Thursday, February 27, 2020 - link
The company I work for has a couple HP EliteDesk Minis and as we replace the desktops everyone is going to be getting the Mini's. Fred666 just doesn't believe the people who work in the industry.torb - Friday, February 28, 2020 - link
I work for a company that makes interactive installations for museums, education centers, etc. The space we have to put our technology is usually very limited (it must be hidden away, close to screens/other input/output but also easy to access). This in practice means NUC-class or similar size most of the time.As for processing power: it depends, sometimes all we need is something that can smoothly drive a rich web UI (native apps would be to expensive to develop) other times we need to be able to drive fully 3D content (written in things like Unity).
This form factor and power class in many cases is a good fit for our purposes.
HStewart - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Is this a MiniATX compatible motherboard, I have an old Atom motherboard and case and this would be good low cost upgrade5080 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
It's 4 inch × 4 inch5080 - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Mini ATX is 11.2 inch long and 8.2 inch wideHStewart - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Ok then it probably not worth it - just have old case and such.thomasg - Saturday, February 29, 2020 - link
The board is much smaller than the power supply in your MiniATX case, and can't even use a ATX power supply.It also has no ATX-compatible mounting points, nor a ATX-compatible slot cover plate.
It is also only 1/6 the footprint, which would make it pretty silly to put it in there.
Mr Perfect - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Are the M.2 slot specs swapped? The NP-FP5 has a lot more PCB space devoted to the M.2 in the picture, I'd expect it's the one supporting 2280.Lakados - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
I see this and think, 4 player arcade cabinet. Gauntlet series here I come.Drorpropc@gmail.com - Wednesday, February 26, 2020 - link
Xbox series x killer 🤣dorcassmith - Monday, March 2, 2020 - link
When students seek Reliable Nursing Paper Writing Services, they are assured of receiving Best Nursing Writing Services and Legit Nursing Research Paper Writing Services that meets all their writing needs.https://researchpapers247.com/buy-nursing-research...
Kamen Rider Blade - Thursday, August 6, 2020 - link
They're not using an existing Form Factor, it's a proprietary MoBo Form Factor.4" x 4" ~= 101.6 mm x 101.6mm which is somewhere in between Nano-ITX & Pico-ITX