(sigh) "Surface color is often mistaken as a significant factor in emissivity; it is not." - source: Emissivity article in wikipedia. You confuse emission of heat (by radiation) with absorption/reflection of visible light frequencies. Also, heat mostly emits in infrared frequencies.
Wow, it states my point right after your quote, which you omitted: "it affects the spectral emissivity at visible wavelengths, which are often negligible when calculating the total emissivity."
I think people are mistaking what is heat conductivity and radiation...
Light is the electromagnetic wave with frequencies ranging from gamma - ultra violet - visible - infrared - micro - radio waves.
'Heat sinks' aren't designed to absorb radiation. All objects absorb and emit heat radiation if there is some in the system, however, Heat sinks absorbs heat transferred through material, called conduction. Which is then "taken away" by convection - the transference of heat to a gas (air)...
Conduction and convection is transferring the energy between atoms...This is the principle way heat sinks reduce the chip temperature. Being black or white affects the radiation absorption and emission, but this is not what heat sinks are for and so being black is purely for aesthetics...
1. Not remotely true, you can get both white and black high emissivity paints. 2. All the fins are located next to more fins. The cooler would just radiate into itself, with little to no net cooling effect.
We both know that no paint would be better, if possible. But purely theoretically speaking, it doesn't matter if most of the pins would be irradiating to each other, it's the net result of heat radiation radiating away from the heatsink that matters. Look at it this way, black absorbs more than white, why would you want to absorb more heat when the sole purpose of a heatsink is to remove heat from a particular source ? And all of this in the end is meaningless as we're talking fractions of a degree here.
Were talking about transferring thermal energy. You're providing frames of reference where there shouldn't be any. It's simply transferring energy from one medium to another.
I may be able to help here as I've just wrapped up the Blackbody Radiation part of my Quantum Physics module at university.
A "blackbody" is a perfect absorber of light (hence it's lack of colour). When you take thermal equilibrium into account, this implies that a blackbody must also be a perfect emitter. Therefore, we can qualitatively say that something black will cool down better than something white, assuming there is no more external light for the blackbody to absorb. It should be noted that both the absorption and emission mentioned here pertain only to photon i.e light absorption/emission. How the body absorbs/emits heat in terms of heat conduction/at the molecular level is a completely different story.
Heat sinks are not about absorbing radiation. It is about transferring heat through material - called: conduction and convection.
Conduction is between solids and convection is between solid and liquid (gas)...
The colour does not matter as it is not what it is designed for.
The term "radiator" is a general term for something the transfers heat. It is not to be confused with absorbing and emitting radiation but of heat transference by conduction and convection.
"With 7.1 billion transistors and an architecture that separated itself from high-end consumer GPUs, the Titan was worthy of its name. It took 9 months for NVIDIA to make a gaming focused version: the GeForce GTX 780 Ti."
I don't understand this comment. It took ZERO months as the gaming focused version of TITAN is called a GTX 780 as your chart shows with the same 7.1B transistors. It took 9 months to get enough chips to field a FULLY enabled 15 SMX 780TI, and a few extra months to give us the PRO version called TITAN BLACK we have announced here. This is probably because it takes a little longer to get even MORE chips that have fully enabled SMX's AND with all DP stuff working too (or they were just clearing old Titan's? as I see none in stock with a quick check). I could be wrong on that, but I'm guessing today's FULLY FULLY enabled (ROFL) Titan Black takes longer than a just regular fully enabled gaming card with much of the DP units off (does NV just disable/hobble them period, or are they really doing it partially because something isn't working on at least some of them?). They were cherry picking the 780ti chips for 2-3 months before introducing the new card and while doing that probably cherry cherry picked (again, ROFL) even more for Titan Black.
Well, I guess it took 3 months looking at the chart again...ROFL. But either way these two new cards are on a different chip, so again not related to the OLD titan or 780. Also while they were cherry picking for 780ti, those failed chips ended up in some GTX 780's or Titans.
I don't think they'll be all that limited if they sell like the first Titan's. They will up production as needed if they sell out fast just as they did the first go around. The first 100K sold out in days, and I can already see many are out of stock already at newegg etc. Newegg has a superclocked model for $19 extra though. I'm surprised they are in stock while the others are not but maybe they just got them in last. I'm guessing they'll be gone before Friday also. Very nice that they can turn on 3 SMX's and run them ~7% faster without raising watts. GK110 is pretty darn impressive in that regard and well worth the R&D it took it seems.
If AMD hadn't spent on consoles we'd have an answer next week. Also maybe Mantle wouldn't be BETA after 2yrs of dev, still in phases of their drivers, and maybe they'd have a decent CPU to compete with Intel. Bummer. Did I mention I hate consoles? ;) Almost forgot, maybe we'd have something marketable to compete with Gsync also, instead of Freesync that isn't even a product (and really only works on a laptop so far - not free if you need a new monitor right?). Consoles need to die. They give us crappy ports, rob from AMD R&D for drivers/new tech/cpus/gpus, and hold back gaming for nearly a decade with each rev. :(
So basically, this card is useless at this price point, there is not a single difference between it and the 780 Ti in gaming performance and yet it costs 1K, i know that its alot better in compute performance, but you can SLI 780 Ti by adding 300$ to the 1K and get double gaming performance and same compute performance as this one.
I don't understand the omission of the GTX 780 in your comparison Anand, that was clearly the first gaming focused GK110 chip and released only 3 short months after the original Titan.
In any case, it is no surprise Titan Black is launching this time around with significantly less pomp and circumstance, as Nvidia is most likely expecting soft demand this time around as well. The original Titan launched under false pretenses and tricked many early adopters into buying it uncertain whether or not Nvidia would launch another gaming-focused version of GK110. Those early adopters have since been burned not once, but twice by Nvidia since, with this being the 3rd time all in less than 1 year's time.
In any case, I am sure there will be some that must have the latest and greatest, but at least Nvidia won't be selling these under false pretenses as they did with the original Titan. Anyone buying one of these is going into it with eyes wide open.
So my question would be how this card compares in professional applications like 3D modeling and rendering programs. I wish Nvidia would come out with a solution for people who like to game a little but also would like a professional class workstation.
It's a Geforce, so it still runs on drivers that are optimized for gaming. The DP compute has nothing to do with any 3D modeling apps. They don't make use of it.
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44 Comments
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nevertell - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
They should've made it white as white radiates heat better than black :Prandom_user - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
White absorbs less heat than black, but black radiates more efficiently than white.chaos215bar2 - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
I hope you just forgot the /s. White certainly absorbs less heat, but color has absolutely nothing to do with heat radiated.Death666Angel - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
Yes it does. Take some university classes. Or google "black body radiation" and "thermal radiation".Notmyusualid - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
Indeed, never saw a white air-cooled motorcycle engine either....aakash_sin - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
:D +1Guest_56 - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
(sigh)"Surface color is often mistaken as a significant factor in emissivity; it is not." - source: Emissivity article in wikipedia.
You confuse emission of heat (by radiation) with absorption/reflection of visible light frequencies. Also, heat mostly emits in infrared frequencies.
Death666Angel - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
Read: "significant". Never said it plays a big role, just that plays a role.Death666Angel - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
Wow, it states my point right after your quote, which you omitted:"it affects the spectral emissivity at visible wavelengths, which are often negligible when calculating the total emissivity."
svyper1 - Wednesday, February 26, 2014 - link
I think people are mistaking what is heat conductivity and radiation...Light is the electromagnetic wave with frequencies ranging from gamma - ultra violet - visible - infrared - micro - radio waves.
'Heat sinks' aren't designed to absorb radiation. All objects absorb and emit heat radiation if there is some in the system, however, Heat sinks absorbs heat transferred through material, called conduction. Which is then "taken away" by convection - the transference of heat to a gas (air)...
Conduction and convection is transferring the energy between atoms...This is the principle way heat sinks reduce the chip temperature. Being black or white affects the radiation absorption and emission, but this is not what heat sinks are for and so being black is purely for aesthetics...
ShieTar - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
1. Not remotely true, you can get both white and black high emissivity paints.2. All the fins are located next to more fins. The cooler would just radiate into itself, with little to no net cooling effect.
nevertell - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
We both know that no paint would be better, if possible. But purely theoretically speaking, it doesn't matter if most of the pins would be irradiating to each other, it's the net result of heat radiation radiating away from the heatsink that matters. Look at it this way, black absorbs more than white, why would you want to absorb more heat when the sole purpose of a heatsink is to remove heat from a particular source ?And all of this in the end is meaningless as we're talking fractions of a degree here.
extide - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
Heh, I doubt it's painted at all, rather anodised.SlyNine - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
Were talking about transferring thermal energy. You're providing frames of reference where there shouldn't be any. It's simply transferring energy from one medium to another.TomFahey - Sunday, February 23, 2014 - link
I may be able to help here as I've just wrapped up the Blackbody Radiation part of my Quantum Physics module at university.A "blackbody" is a perfect absorber of light (hence it's lack of colour). When you take thermal equilibrium into account, this implies that a blackbody must also be a perfect emitter. Therefore, we can qualitatively say that something black will cool down better than something white, assuming there is no more external light for the blackbody to absorb. It should be noted that both the absorption and emission mentioned here pertain only to photon i.e light absorption/emission. How the body absorbs/emits heat in terms of heat conduction/at the molecular level is a completely different story.
svyper1 - Thursday, February 27, 2014 - link
the argument about black body absorption is pointless as it has nothing to do with that.Heat sinks are about heat transfer between materials, by conduction and convection.
The colour of the heat sink is nothing more than for design
svyper1 - Thursday, February 27, 2014 - link
Heat sinks are not about absorbing radiation. It is about transferring heat through material - called: conduction and convection.Conduction is between solids and convection is between solid and liquid (gas)...
The colour does not matter as it is not what it is designed for.
The term "radiator" is a general term for something the transfers heat. It is not to be confused with absorbing and emitting radiation but of heat transference by conduction and convection.
Krysto - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
This is not a Maxwell version, though, right?DigitalFreak - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
No, it's not.A5 - Tuesday, February 18, 2014 - link
No. If GM110 exists, it won't be out until after TSMC 20nm is fully operational.TheJian - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
"With 7.1 billion transistors and an architecture that separated itself from high-end consumer GPUs, the Titan was worthy of its name. It took 9 months for NVIDIA to make a gaming focused version: the GeForce GTX 780 Ti."I don't understand this comment. It took ZERO months as the gaming focused version of TITAN is called a GTX 780 as your chart shows with the same 7.1B transistors. It took 9 months to get enough chips to field a FULLY enabled 15 SMX 780TI, and a few extra months to give us the PRO version called TITAN BLACK we have announced here. This is probably because it takes a little longer to get even MORE chips that have fully enabled SMX's AND with all DP stuff working too (or they were just clearing old Titan's? as I see none in stock with a quick check). I could be wrong on that, but I'm guessing today's FULLY FULLY enabled (ROFL) Titan Black takes longer than a just regular fully enabled gaming card with much of the DP units off (does NV just disable/hobble them period, or are they really doing it partially because something isn't working on at least some of them?). They were cherry picking the 780ti chips for 2-3 months before introducing the new card and while doing that probably cherry cherry picked (again, ROFL) even more for Titan Black.
TheJian - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
Well, I guess it took 3 months looking at the chart again...ROFL. But either way these two new cards are on a different chip, so again not related to the OLD titan or 780. Also while they were cherry picking for 780ti, those failed chips ended up in some GTX 780's or Titans.I don't think they'll be all that limited if they sell like the first Titan's. They will up production as needed if they sell out fast just as they did the first go around. The first 100K sold out in days, and I can already see many are out of stock already at newegg etc. Newegg has a superclocked model for $19 extra though. I'm surprised they are in stock while the others are not but maybe they just got them in last. I'm guessing they'll be gone before Friday also. Very nice that they can turn on 3 SMX's and run them ~7% faster without raising watts. GK110 is pretty darn impressive in that regard and well worth the R&D it took it seems.
If AMD hadn't spent on consoles we'd have an answer next week. Also maybe Mantle wouldn't be BETA after 2yrs of dev, still in phases of their drivers, and maybe they'd have a decent CPU to compete with Intel. Bummer. Did I mention I hate consoles? ;) Almost forgot, maybe we'd have something marketable to compete with Gsync also, instead of Freesync that isn't even a product (and really only works on a laptop so far - not free if you need a new monitor right?). Consoles need to die. They give us crappy ports, rob from AMD R&D for drivers/new tech/cpus/gpus, and hold back gaming for nearly a decade with each rev. :(
TheElMoIsEviL - Friday, February 21, 2014 - link
Ok not loopy... rather obsessive.TheElMoIsEviL - Friday, February 21, 2014 - link
He's a little loopy.beck2050 - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
Thank you! I'll take 4!YazX_ - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
So basically, this card is useless at this price point, there is not a single difference between it and the 780 Ti in gaming performance and yet it costs 1K, i know that its alot better in compute performance, but you can SLI 780 Ti by adding 300$ to the 1K and get double gaming performance and same compute performance as this one.so does it worth it for 1K?? NO
chizow - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
I don't understand the omission of the GTX 780 in your comparison Anand, that was clearly the first gaming focused GK110 chip and released only 3 short months after the original Titan.In any case, it is no surprise Titan Black is launching this time around with significantly less pomp and circumstance, as Nvidia is most likely expecting soft demand this time around as well. The original Titan launched under false pretenses and tricked many early adopters into buying it uncertain whether or not Nvidia would launch another gaming-focused version of GK110. Those early adopters have since been burned not once, but twice by Nvidia since, with this being the 3rd time all in less than 1 year's time.
In any case, I am sure there will be some that must have the latest and greatest, but at least Nvidia won't be selling these under false pretenses as they did with the original Titan. Anyone buying one of these is going into it with eyes wide open.
aggiechase37 - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
So my question would be how this card compares in professional applications like 3D modeling and rendering programs. I wish Nvidia would come out with a solution for people who like to game a little but also would like a professional class workstation.TheElMoIsEviL - Friday, February 21, 2014 - link
Loses badly to an AMD R9 290x. That's how it compares in those professional applications overall.3DVagabond - Sunday, February 23, 2014 - link
It's a Geforce, so it still runs on drivers that are optimized for gaming. The DP compute has nothing to do with any 3D modeling apps. They don't make use of it.myhomeismycastle45138gr - Wednesday, February 19, 2014 - link
having something like this would be awesome! my gtx760 isnt bad for nowjustsean09 - Saturday, February 22, 2014 - link
Another amazing card by Nvidia (except the price) but I'm happy with my EVGA 780 Ti SC Edition. I would rather by a second card in a few months.