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  • Scholzpdx - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Looks decent. As it stands though, you're going to need something worth $100 for me to leave Windows 7.
  • bgood2 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    What about what I call "feature hokey pokey"? You put the feature in, you take the feature out, you put the feature in, and the users scream and shout?

    By that I mean things like System images, libraries, offline folders, Windows Experience Index etc. So many "gee whiz" features get thrown in for a version or two and then quietly disappear. Some return, others never do. Just about the time you get users accustomed to "Libraries", they're "deprecated". I can no longer depend that a new feature will remain in the OS long enough for my users to get comfortable with it.

    Oh, and while I'm on my soapbox, it's ridiculous how often Windows Update *itself* has problems and stops working. WTH is *that* about?
  • kamm2 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    WTH indeed! I've lost track of how many times I've had to help someone with Windows Update problems. And I don't even know that many people using Windows 8. Computers right out of the box have problems. Computers that have been working fine suddenly stop downloading updates. C'mon Microsoft, fix it once and for all.
  • GatesDA - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Good news: An overhaul of the update system is actually one of Win10's under-the-covers improvements.
  • damianrobertjones - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    None of my own computers has failed with Windows Update and neither has any within this business (WSUS). Home users... who knows. Usually the time is wrong
  • Lerianis - Friday, November 28, 2014 - link

    Actually, the usual issues for home owners when they cannot get updates is because they have been compromised, i.e. there is a virus on their computer. I personally found 4 not-very-well-known viruses on my relative's one computer they had been using for nearly a year now.
    They were VERY hard to track down because they did not disable Windows Defender, they did not disable Windows Update, etc.
    They were 'stealthed' for the most part and only Hitman Pro x64 (shameless plug of that product) found the viruses in question.
  • jabber - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Windows 8 update feature is pretty poor. It was pretty solid in XP/Vista and 7 but its a lottery if it works in 8/8.1.

    I personally love the update bug that shows it downloading at 0% for an hour then switches to 99% and starts installing.

    Plus new builds (service packs) as whole new installs that put all the apps crap back in are lovely.
  • ryrynz - Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - link

    Agree this piss poor % updating is a major pain in the arse. Right up there with 100% for minutes.. No clue.
  • Lerianis - Sunday, November 30, 2014 - link

    You kidding? I've very very rarely had an update fail on Windows 8/8.1 and when I did, the next time I tried installing it the update installed correctly.
    Making me think that the issue was that "It was doing an automatic update at the same time I was trying to do a manual update!"
  • Lerianis - Friday, November 28, 2014 - link

    Good news: Stop blaming machines getting viruses and other things on them on Microsoft. That is not the purview of Microsoft, kamm2, and all those issues you describe come from that, except the "Computers right out of the box have problems!"
    That last thing I have NEVER seen, where a computer has problems 'out of the box' unless it has been loaded up with crapware crud.
  • darthrevan13 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Windows Experience Index is still in Windows 8, it just does not have an interface. You can rate your computer through Power Shell if you want it so badly.
  • calculagator - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Windows 8.1 (and 8?) still has the Experience Index and the GUI: It's called "Performance Information and Tools." I think the numbers go higher than in Windows 7, but it's basically the same thing.
  • TeXWiller - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    The familiar index can be generated with WinSAT.exe. It apparently optimizes the system in other ways as well since after installing or trasferring the system on an SSD one should run the formal assessment (winsat formal) to minimize writes.
  • therightclique - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    If there's a GUI, I can't find it, nor does there seem to be any information on it online. The only way to run it in 8.1 seems to be via command line.
  • ryrynz - Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - link

    It doesn't have one, grab this

    http://win-experience-index.chris-pc.com/

    It's a WEI gui, though TBH I like Passmark's PerformanceTest more as a benchmark.. WEI is kinda shit.
  • BedfordTim - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    The difficulty is they need to try ideas out and some will fail. To leave the failures in means the OS becomes unmanageable.

    They have more of an issue with APIs, which do tend to live on. I am not sure how many different ways there are of dealing with strings and images, but the number is huge and most of them come in to the mistake category. They have deprecated some disasters such as DirectShow, and yet they live on in a dreadful limbo where the header files are missing and yet the DLLs work and no replacement has arrived.
  • mkozakewich - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    The problem with that is they force you to use those features and become familiar with them before they take them out. I had to work around Libraries for a while, until I found out I could just move them from My Documents. I also delete the "Libraries" section from my Explorer sidebar and put them into the favourites. In short, I've made it work for me. The more the abstract these things away, the less I'll be able to move them around. I'm afraid we'll end up with mobile-style Video dumps, where every video on all my drives will be crammed together in one single unsorted view.
  • damianrobertjones - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    " force you to use those features"

    No-one has ever forced me to use Windows or a feature of windows. Ever.
  • therightclique - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    Well, that may be true, but they do force them to be in your way when you're trying to do things the way they used to be.
  • taltamir - Monday, December 29, 2014 - link

    That didn't stop them from TRYING to force users to do things their ways. users said no (see win8 abysmal adoption rate)
  • piiman - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    "The problem with that is they force you to use those features and become familiar with them before they take them out."

    How did they force you to use those features? I personally hate libraries and never use them I just open explorer and go to the location I have it saved, I'll do my own filing thank you.
  • taltamir - Monday, December 29, 2014 - link

    1. Everyone told them this idea was stupid to begin with and they insisted on doing it anyways
    2. Beta testing is a thing, you can test features without putting them in the final version.
    3. You can actually add an alternative option rather then removing the current method of doing things. If people got a choice between aero and that metro shit there wouldn't be a problem. But they removed aero because they didn't want people choosing to not use metro. They overestimated their power over users.
    4. Having support for multiple APIs does not, in fact, make an OS unmanageable.
  • damianrobertjones - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    MS knows what people use and, in all honesty, libraries was probably one of those features that most users ignored. Businesses still used the older way of doing things (Direct folder re-direction) so just because YOU use something it doesn't mean the rest of the world does.

    P.s. I still use Libraries in Windows 8.1.
  • Ubercake - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Church. Updates aren't a new concept. This should be a non-issue at this point in technology. I've also had issues with printers showing as offline in Win 8 while all of my Win 7 PCs, iPhones and Android tablets can print to it. Printing is another thing that should be a non-issue. Also, something you occasionally see across Win installs (I've seen it in 7 and 8) is the login service not starting on a multi-user install. WTH is right. Logging in, printing, updates... All fundamental concepts. If you can't get these things right, you need to step away and revisit the basics before thinking you can start adding on.

    That being said, while previously being a large opponent of making the move to Win 8, I have forced myself to use Win8.1 Pro for the past couple of months on a souped-up workstation and the way I see it now is Win 7 - though stable and trusty - is a pretty old-school OS. I now see the metro screen as my very own portal page that will take me to my most-used apps and web resources. The other thing I like about the metro screen is the ability to just start typing to get to things like admin tools and the like. While I do most of my work in the desktop, the metro interface really is a quick way to get to things similar to a 'Jump page' or personal portal page.

    Win 10 will hopefully get things right when it comes to those basics because the way I see it is if you can't get those things right after 40 years of designing operating systems, you need to revisit your process.
  • mebby - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    How MS released Win8 and did not allow to boot in to desktop and keep Start Menu was a huge mistake. But I have used Win8/8.1 everyday and generally remain in the desktop. In many ways it feels like am using Windows 7. So it is not an ongoing disaster like many bloggers/journalist state. I stay in desktop... almost all day.

    But I also use a Win8.1 tablet everyday and really like the touch UI.

    So I am also hoping that MS improves both the desktop and mobile experience in Win10. But I am doubtful. Seems like MS keeps changing direction and tripping over themselves even when they have good or great ideas.
  • Flunk - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    "Unlike apps written in .NET, WinRT is native code, which should result in better performance."

    This is actually not true. WinRT apps can be written in C++ (fastest), .NET (nearly as fast) or HTML/Javascript (slow). And the performance difference between C++ and C# specifically has shrunk significantly over the years, I might even argue that for desktop applications it doesn't really matter. WinRT is a good idea because it's fairly inclusive of different programming styles.
  • Flunk - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Oops, I didn't intend to make that a reply.
  • nevertell - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Whilst you can use the WinRT framework in different languages, the libraries and the framework itself is implemented in native code, hence execution will be fast.
  • GatesDA - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    The rumor is that Win10 will be a free upgrade for Windows 7 users. The Technical Preview showed up as an option in my Win7 Windows Update, which adds credibility to the rumor.
  • MonkeyPaw - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Yeah, I think MS will be offering this for free or cheap for all legit Windows users (though I'm sure enterprise markets won't be free). Why? They need the Store to succeed, and Windows 10 will also be the best at platform sync, which should help sell all of MS's devices and services.
  • Spawne32 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    If you think Windows 10 will be free, you are wrong, they have already announced that Windows 10 will NOT be free, they will offer discounted upgrade paths for windows 7 and windows 8/8.1 users, but never in the history of Microsoft has windows ever been offered as a "free upgrade".
  • jt122333221 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    While this is more a "sp1" upgrade, Windows 8.1 was free and changed the name of the OS version (instead of appending SP1 or SP2 to the name). I would consider that as a new version for free.
  • Spawne32 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Windows 8.1 wasn't a new version, it was a patch to solve the doomed sales of Windows 8 itself because of how unusable it was.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    It didn't install cleanly as a patch, it was built as a new version.
  • snajk138 - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    And how is that different from Windows 10?
  • anthill - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    DirectX 12 support will push me to upgrade if 7 doesn't support it.
  • zepi - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    January 14, 2020

    That is the day when Windows 7 runs out of extended support and that is the date you should seriously consider upgrading even if you don't like the options available...
  • rangerdavid - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Exactly. Brilliant.
  • designgears - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    The speed of windows 8 and 8.1 alone is worth the $100.
  • Lerianis - Sunday, November 30, 2014 - link

    Or they are going to have to give a free upgrade to Windows 10 for people to justify it. Seriously, I never understood the "You have to keep paying to upgrade Windows!" nonsense. Just allow us to buy the operating system ONCE and our key, OEM or Retail, works for ALL future versions of Windows.
    Microsoft does not make most of their money on upgrades.... they make it on original sales of machines.
  • JonnyDough - Friday, January 16, 2015 - link

    Microsoft will just force you to switch as they did before. They will drop support and remove updates from the internet so that you can't even patch your old OS to last year's security level.
  • CaedenV - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I have been playing with 10 in a VM on my desktop off and on, and it has been pretty awesome so far. I do wish they would have gone with something more like the WP Start menu and give the option between that and the 'traditional' win7 style menu rather than having tiles endlessly (and annoyingly) sprawl off to the right, but outside of that everything else has run very smoothly.

    Can't wait for winter break when I will be able to risk installing on my Dell XPS12 to get a feel for the touch and form factor switching capabilities of continuum. That is what is going to make or break this version for mainstream users (who by in large like win8.1). But for business and pro use win10 is already going to be a big step forward compared to 8.
  • kamm2 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I know so many people who will not buy Windows 8 computers because of two reasons. The Start screen is one even though I tell people they can install a free app to get the W7 start menu back. The second being that W8 is ugly. From what I've seen this will still be an issue with W10.
  • darthrevan13 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Flat is the new trend on the web because of everything now need to be responsive to the screen size/window size. Android and iOS became more flatter because of that. If you're hoping for Win 7 style Aero 3D effects then I think you're going to be dissapointed by all OSes, except Linux perhaps, if you have the time to invest customizing your interface.
  • kamm2 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    There is a lot that can be done between the two and flattening an interface does not necessarily mean it has to look ugly. Less appealing to some sure but there are ways to minimize that. iOS 8 and Lollipop does not stir up such a strong dislike. It also doesn't help sales that whenever a W8 device is displayed in an ad there's that loathed start screen staring at you.
  • kyuu - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Funny, I think iOS8 is a pretty horrid mishmash of iOS's chiclet-tiles on a grid with modern flat design principles that ends up being pretty ugly. Lollipop simply makes Android look a lot more like Windows 8, really. They certainly did a better job of going flat than Apple did.

    And I really, really don't get the hate for the start screen's aesthetics. In what way is it worse than iOS and Android's tiles-on-a-grid?
  • steven75 - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    It's purely subjective. It just happens to be that you are very much in the minority. Nothing wrong with that.
  • GuardianAngel470 - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    Two reasons: 1) Color Clash. Any half-way fashion/home design/color design-conscious person can tell you that some colors should simply not show up next to each other.

    Windows Phone 7 (the grandfather of ModernUI) didn't have this problem. It had a unified color interface; you picked your color, and all buttons on the start screen were that color. Occasionally some apps would change on you depending on their activity, but the buttons were typically all the color you chose for them.

    Windows 8 changed that. Boot up the computer for the first time and you're confronted with half a dozen different pastel colors, many of which clash horribly. It's like looking at a hip woman from the 80's; complete color-induced eyestrain.

    2) Massive wasted space. This is an issue I personally have with it, and I'm not sure if anyone else does. Essentially, on a 24+ inch monitor, Windows 8 wastes massive amounts of space. Huge swaths of the Start Screen are just a solid color background. Most of the app buttons are empty space. Apps themselves (back when they were fullscreen by default) had about a 3 to 1 ratio of unused space to relevant info/interface.

    Personally, I HATE that. Maybe it's just OCD of me, but I hate wasting space like that. It's physically irritating when it does that. That I couldn't stop it was even worse.

    8.1 didn't really help with that either.
  • inighthawki - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    "because of everything now need to be responsive to the screen size/window size"

    That's funny, I haven't had this issue since... oh wait, never. Windows 7 works great. Flat graphics is a horrible invention of the web because web sites needed to be performant on extremely low end devices (because html, js, and CSS are garbage for performance compared to native code and hardware accelerated graphics), and low bandwidth connections. A desktop OS does not really have these issues. The windows desktop is fully composed using hardware acceleration on a heavily optimized compositor that supports things like occlusion.
  • kyuu - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Except that flat design has nothing to do with performance considerations. This is something that you (and a lot of other people) are essentially making up. Flat design is simply the way design is currently moving -- it's a break from the previous skeumorphism-heavy design ethos. It's a design choice, not a technical consideration. Any performance benefit (from not having to render fake-3D effects and transparencies) is merely tangential.
  • inighthawki - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    I have to disagree. The trend clearly began as a way to improve load times on low and limited bandwidth connections by removing a lot of the glam and gloss and relying more on CSS style sheets to expose a minimalist design. The problem is that this turned into a really awful fad of "Me too!" design philosophies and now everyone is trying to fit it in everywhere, just because it worked out in its original incarnation. Flat design works EXTREMELY well, in select cases. An operating system can have multiple uses. On a phone and a tablet, these goals are content consumption - e.g. web browsing, photos, videos, etc. On a desktop, an OS is more of a tool for productivity purposes. Flat design does NOT work well here. It may satisfy some hipster craze for their OS to look "modern" and that might be fine as they use their computers to go browse facebook and post to twitter. But this design is extremely counter productive for power users, since it strips all of the design cues that are there to empower the user, such as high contrasting window borders. skeumorphism design mimics real-world designs for a reason. The real world is an extremely productive environment that humans are familiar with. Giving humans tools in an environment that is recognizable enhances productivity. Having a window frame that appears to be made of real-world materials such as wood, glass, etc, with 3D effects that mimic depth work way better than solid colors with light accents for multitasking.

    I'm fine with metro on my phone and on my tablet. But on the desktop - it needs to die. This goes not just for windows, but for Office and Visual Studio as well. All the latest versions of each are easily the worst versions Microsoft has ever released.
  • sphigel - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I used to think the same thing. When I upgraded to Windows 8 and Office 2013 I really hated the look of it. After using it a while, I now think that Windows 7 and Office 2010 are ugly looking. Having said that, I'm really looking forward to the drop shadows on windows coming back in Windows 10. They did go a little too flat with the UI in Windows 8.
  • kmmatney - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I have teh opposite reaction. I use win 8 at work and for my home computer, but also have a few Windows 7 computers at home. Whenever I go on a Windows 7 computer, the first thing that jumps out at me is how much nicer it looks compared to Windows 8.
  • steven75 - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Same experience. I also have used Office 2013 for a while, and even in the farsical "dark theme" that is a very very lightly shaded gray, I still HATE the white-everywhere with no contrast look of it.
  • GuardianAngel470 - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    I've been using Office 2013 for a while now. I like it, but then I've never really used Office with a Dark theme so, even though "Dark" is light grey, it doesn't really bother me.

    However, for anyone who does use Dark for anything, I sympathize completely.
  • andrewaggb - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    Yeah the windows 8 color scheme has grown on me as well. Not a big fan of IOS 8's theme.

    I don't use the start screen at all on the desktop, but I love it on my miix tablet. Definitely was a mistake to try to force it on the desktop, but I think everyone except microsoft knew that. And probably many people there did as well.
  • jabber - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    For me what was wrong for Windows 8 was the use of purple on the desktop in so much of the media advertising. Looks wrong.

    Who likes Purple? Notice that Windows 10 now uses far more neutral blue.
  • Da W - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    9.0/10 for Windows 10 so far.
    The thing i miss i that i don't clik the start button to see some of my live tiles as often now. Some tiles (facebook, mail, calendar, weater) are useful. They should make them like widget on your desktop (yes bring back the widgets).
  • Houdani - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Rather than widgets, I'd be happy if they would let us snap a "start screen" to one side of the monitor so we could fill it with a selection of live tiles.
  • croc - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    "That is what is going to make or break this version for mainstream users (who by in large like win8.1)" I'd have a hard time calling 11% 'mainstream'.

    http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-mar...
  • alacard - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    "Also, like modern tablet and smartphone OSes, WinRT apps from the store are automatically kept up to date by the store. This avoids a lot of the issues with viruses and malware attacking an older version of a product since in theory it will not be around any longer."

    Has anyone here heard about the recent GTAV steam debacle where they removed 17 songs from the game due to expired licensing contracts and didn't tell anyone?

    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20141110/0953552...

    Yeah... the above Windows Store updates aren't a feature, they're DRM. If you can't disable that, then no windows 10/windows store sale for me. Ever.
  • jhoff80 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    You mean GTA San Andreas, which let's keep in mind is a 10 year old game.
  • flatrock - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Auto-updating has it's risks. It's not really DRM but it does let the software publisher make changes without your explicit permission.
    In the example you provided Rockstar is to blame, not Steam. Rockstar should have done a better job of negotiating licenses to the songs that allowed them to be used within the game for the life of the game. The could have renegotiated extending the license period to cover continued updates. They instead chose to remove content people had paid for without warning them.
    The key thing about auto-updates is that you need to be able to trust whoever provides the updates.
    You can turn off auto updates for Windows 8. I don't see much reason to suspect Windows 10 won't allow it as well.
    As for your example, I would suggest that you stop buying Rockstar games until they provide a solution for what they did and a clear policy on how they will avoid it in the future.
  • alacard - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I don't own any rockstar games, nor have i ever used Steam. I do own a hacked Kindle tho, which never has network access so Amazon can't decide which books to remove on a whim (see 1984). I'm curious why you think you would be able to trust Microsoft (given their long gruesome corporate history) or any of the myriad of developers who will be creating apps for their store. Perhaps you can explain what makes them more trustworthy than any other company who licensees rather than sells their wares.

    We live in a world where developers have the ability to strip out content and feature on a whim, and you're talking about "trust"? Shouldn't you be talking about "laws" instead which make that kind of nonsense explicitly illegal, combined with a federal agency filled with sharp teeth dedicated to enforcing them.

    Trust, really?
  • nathanddrews - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    We also live in a world of choice in a free market. Nothing is stopping you or I from sticking with Windows XP, using Linux, Windows 7, Mac OS, or any other OS. Nothing stops us from using free, open-source software instead of DRM'ed, walled garden, subscription-based applications. Everyone, individually, has to weigh the features they want against what they're willing give up. Don't elevate technological luxuries to those of legal rights. Don't like it? Don't buy it or use it.
  • alacard - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I guess you missed the part where i said the following: "If you can't disable that, then no windows 10/windows store sale for me. Ever."

    Do try to keep up.
  • nathanddrews - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Good, I'm glad we agree.
  • mga318 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Trust...

    Well, if you've ever used Windows Update, they've had root access for a long...long time.
  • alacard - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Windows update has always been optional, what we're discussing most likely won't be. For Christ sake, read the thread before you comment.
  • domboy - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    "Auto-updating has it's risks." It sure does, and that is the biggest reservation I have with the store model regardless of operating system. I have no problem with the idea of a central software repository or package management system since various Linux distributions have used these for years. But these mobile OS (and now Windows) store systems are very in-flexible. My biggest gripe is there is no way to control versions or roll back a bad or unwanted update. Right now the best we have is to turn off auto-update and rely on somebody else to try it first and hope they post somewhere if they have a bad experience.
  • piiman - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    "roll back a bad or unwanted update"
    System Restore ring any bells?
  • Haravikk - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I'm finding Windows 10 to be pretty good, in fact I'm using it as my main Windows version at the moment in spite of the risks (though my main OS is still Mac OS X so it's not a huge risk).

    It's definitely a lot more usable than Windows 8, but it does still have a way to go to really fix the desktop experience; most searches return results in Metro apps rather than desktop apps, regardless of which mode you're currently in, which is incredibly annoying. The search app is Metro only, which is weird, as all it does is spit out Bing search results with no apparently added value, so it might as well just send you to a web-browser. This is hopefully something that will be addressed during development.

    I'm also a bit annoyed at the Windows Live account integration though; OneDrive is only available if you create a Microsoft account, but that means using the same password for your online account and your local machine, which IMO is insecure as it means I have a web-account with a weaker password just so I can remember it, rather than being able to set different passwords (or use a password manager). If you instead use a local account you can't use OneDrive, and you have to sign in to every single Microsoft service (e-mail, calendar, photos etc.) which is a huge pain in the ass compared to OS X's internet accounts system where you sign in once and interested apps can just request access.

    Otherwise it takes the great technologies of Windows 8 and makes them a lot more useable, which is great; the live tiles on the start menu are a wonderful feature, rather than an impediment like the start screen on a desktop (it's admittedly great on a tablet).

    At the same time though it just doesn't go far enough; there is still so much in Windows that is archaic and sorely in need of replacement. Things like tools from the Manage menu that looks fresh out of Windows 95 (and probably are), accessing settings is still a nightmare as they could be absolutely anywhere, with the control panels app still being a bit of a pain to use (at least search gets you where you need to be quickly some of the time). Windows 10's interface is really just veneer on very old, rotten wood; it's a nice veneer, but under the surface you can very quickly get mired in complex nonsense the moment you run into a driver problem, try to configure network connections etc. So it's not like this new interface is really a sea change in usability for Windows, it just makes Windows 8 more palatable to Windows 7 users.
  • darthrevan13 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Last time I checked Google did the same thing with their services (one password to rule them all) and nobody complained that it was insecure or even a problem for them. Besides, how else would you want to use OneDrive if you don't have a MS account?

    If you choose a MS account on Windows then it will automatically log you in all your MS services in IE only so I don't understand why you need to bash Win saying that OS X does it better, it's the stuff if you ask me.
  • wallysb01 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Its a little different when that “one password to rule them all” also has administrative privileges on your computer, than just having a lot of random web services tied to it.
  • Haravikk - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    I don't think I've explained it very well. Basically when you create an account in Windows 10 (and probably Windows 8, I don't know) you can create either a local account, or a "Microsoft Account". The former is just a classic account with its own password, while the latter requires you to use your Live.com login details, so it uses the same password. I just don't like it however, because I like nice, long (usually randomly generated) passwords for web-services, which of course is impossible to use with a Microsoft account, so it would force me to use something simple instead which I consider insecure.

    However, if you can only use OneDrive with a Microsoft Account, it won't let you sign in on a local account. You can sign in to mail, contacts etc. with a local account, but not OneDrive? They're basically forcing you to use an online account, which prevents me from using a strong password for the web-service side, and an easy to remember one for my actual user account, it's a pretty poor way to do it.

    My other gripe was that if you want to use a local account, but still use your Live.com details to set up e-mail, calendars etc. then you have to enter the same details in each app, there's no way to just connect your Live.com to a local account so that apps can use it (or ask to use it).

    In OS X you can setup a local user account, you can connect it to your Apple ID for recovery purposes, and you can also go into the internet accounts section and add your Apple ID as an iCloud account to enable all the various features it gives (iCloud Drive, calendar, e-mail etc.), which automatically configures all the relevant apps for, and lets third-party apps request the same details if they want them.

    Basically Windows 10 (and possibly 8) force you to use your Live.com as login details for your computer if you want to get the most use out of it, and even blocks features (like OneDrive) if you don't. Meanwhile everything else is a pain in the ass to setup on the local account.

    I'm not simply bashing Windows because I prefer how OS X does it, the way Windows does it is simply horrible; rather than giving the user flexibility, it forces you into one of two choices with their own drawbacks, rather than there being any best of both, even though they could easily give us one. In fact it's a regression from Windows 7, where you can setup a local account and link your Live.com account to it fairly easily.

    Don't get me wrong, for some people using a Microsoft Account may be a great way to do things as it's simple, and involves no extra passwords, but I just don't think it's very secure, and I don't like that because I choose not to use it I'm not only losing features I had in Windows 7, but am also having to work harder to set everything up than I had under Windows 7. It's a huge step back.
  • asmian - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    "for some people using a Microsoft Account may be a great way to do things as it's simple, and involves no extra passwords, but I just don't think it's very secure"

    Ain't that the truth. Microsoft mail? Might just as well add an explicit CC to the NSA on everything, since we know they have complete back-door access to all MS's servers. Cloud or mail, if you have any wish for privacy this just isn't an option.

    It'd be great if someone could write an app, like the old XP-Antispy, with a complete set of options in one place to reliably turn off all the MS account features and hidden privacy-leaking options.
  • attilakocsis - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    You can add additional sign-in options to your account (like PIN and picture password). So you can have a complex password for your Microsoft account and use e.g. a 4-digit PIN to access your computer. This is how I use mine - very convinient.
  • lilmoe - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Was about to say the same thing. I use a PIN instead of my password, very convenient.
  • MrSpadge - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Headlines like "The Return Of The Desktop" make me want to puke. It's not because of your article, Brett, but because of something I would characterize as a full-blown mass hysteria towards Win 8. As if the desktop was gone under Win 8.

    If one manages to look beyond the "modern" start screen (which you don't have to use) the Win 8/8.1 desktop is objectively better and more polished than 7 (explorer, task manager etc.). It even looks and feels better to me, although this is obviously highly subjective.

    I recently had a short discussion with a colleague about a new PC:
    "Yeah, it's got a fresh 8.1"
    "8? Oh no!"
    "Why?"
    "Because every 2nd one is crap"
    "... is that seriously the best argument you can come up with?"

    Anecdotal, for sure, but shows how far this "Win 8 sucks hysteria" has brought us.
  • BobSwi - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Microsoft Account is forced everywhere even when you've bypassed the initial setup with a local account (which is still a half hidden create a new ms account, cancel, and then make a local).
    Search riddled with Trending internet crap is embarrassing. Then another search bar in the start menu that you can't limit to local only so its searching store and internet when I'm looking for local application.
    2 calculators, one metro & one old school, PC settings still all over the place. Charms is gone but different metro apps have their settings in different places now, do I Win+C or right-click, or look for elispes in top left for them. Not to mention half the metro apps work like crap in windowed mode, scroll bars really get hosed when not full screen.
    Canned 'apps' seem to have more holding spots for ads, news weather etc. If I don't install windows w/ an MS account, I wished they'd just leave out all the canned apps and MS Store since I'll likely be removing them for business use anyway.
  • darthrevan13 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    If you're referring to Windows 8.1 then all those issues where addressed (except for the calculator). If you're referring to 10 then DON'T FORGET IS A BETA. Next time you write a program and launch a beta I'm gonna say it's BS because a lot of stuff is buggy then I'll see how you like it.
  • sphigel - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Search is still god awful in Windows 8.1 Update 1. I mainly use it as an app/utility launcher and it can't even get that right. If you're running 8.1 right now give this a try. Hit the windows key and type "devices" with the intent of launching Devices and Printers. If your computer is like mine you should see Devices and Printers as the top search result. Ok, now hit enter. Did Devices and Printers launch? Nope! It launched a freaking web search for "devices"! How convenient! Hitting enter doesn't even launch the top search result!
  • MrSpadge - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    It doesn't do that if you have deactivated "include web into search results", which I always do. But you're right that hitting enter upon a search doesn't launch the top item, but (without internet search) rather a full page of the search results. I can see that being useful for some. BTW: in Win 7 you'd have to hit "arrow down" once after searching to get the topmost item, right? (can't test right now)
  • sphigel - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    I'll have to deactivate web search because I would never use that feature. Thanks for the tip. The other problem with it not automatically selecting the top result when you hit enter is made worse by the fact that it's inconsistent. On two fully updated Win 8 computers I can search for "Control Panel" and hit enter and it will launch Control Panel. However, even if I fully type "Devices and Printers" and hit enter it will not launch Devices and Printers even though it's the top search result. I have not found any logic behind when it chooses to launch the top search result and when it chooses not to. Win7 would always launch the top search result. I would often times start typing and just continue typing until what I was looking for moved up to the top of the list and then I'd hit enter. It was much quicker and more intuitive to use search in Win7.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    When Windows 8 came out there was talk of the desktop being deprecated completely. Clearly that's not happening now.

    I agree there was a lot to like with the Windows 8.1 desktop especially, but a lot of people were confused by the Touch interface on top. In Windows 8.1 though, Modern apps just are not good productivity replacements for the most part since they are full screen. Even with snap, I found they got in the way when I was trying to get work done. Having them in a window is much easier on a desktop PC.
  • MrSpadge - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I agree that for non-touch the modern apps are mostly worse than regular programs. But they're optional, so I fail to see how not having the choice to install & use them would be any better (implying that someone wants to use this argument against 8/8.1 compared to 7 - no question 10 is doing it better).
  • kmmatney - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    For non-touch, modern Apps are even worse than their web page equivalents. I've been using Windows 10 on a spare computer and it's much better than Windows 8.1. The funny thing is, it almost exactly like my Windows 8.1 computer - which I spent a lot of effort on to remove all traces of Metro.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    My only major grip with the Windows 10 Technical Preview (aside from the bugs) is the virtual desktop implementation. Having used OS X's Mission Control, you understand the importance of animating the experience. It provides you with the context of where you are in the multiple desktop environment. Windows 10's implementation as it exists today has jarring transitions with no ability to move windows between desktops or change the rearrange the desktops. Also assigning a unique wallpaper aids in positional awareness is not possible with this implementation.

    OS X has set a high bar for this feature andI'm really shocked by Microsoft's "amateurish" implementation. As it exists today...the feature should be removed to avoid embarrassment. Hopefully, someone at Microsoft will listen to the feedback and take action to dramatically improve this feature.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Remember this is a technical preview of pre-release software. The Multiple desktops are one of the newest features. If you want it changed, check out the Windows 10 User Voice https://windows.uservoice.com/forums/265757-window... and add a suggestion there.

    It seems unlikely this brand new feature will not get updated before the final release.
  • beggerking@yahoo.com - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    virtual desktop is ..so 90s..
    now a days we have dual / tri/ quad monitor setup. works much much better.
  • inighthawki - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    The two are very orthogonal. If you think more monitors replaces virtual desktops, then you clearly don't understand the purpose for virtual desktops at all.

    Multiple monitors are about multitasking in a single scenario. e.g. I can have visual studio open on one monitor while a web browser shows documentation for the API I'm using on another, Virtual desktops is about separation of unrelated scenarios. One virtual desktop may have work related tasks and programs open (e.g. outlook, word, visual studio), while another virtual desktop has personal stuff (e.g. web browsing, netflix).

    I also work in a programming environment where I work on enlistments of projects simultaneously (i.e. different views of the same source repository). Being able to have one enlistment per desktop is an excellent separation of data that I'm greatly looking forward two while using my multi-monitor setup at work.
  • Donkey2008 - Wednesday, November 19, 2014 - link

    "One virtual desktop may have work related tasks and programs open (e.g. outlook, word, visual studio), while another virtual desktop has personal stuff (e.g. web browsing, netflix)"

    That's the best explanation of v-desktops I have heard so far. Common users will understand that without confusing tech mumbo jumbo talk.
  • TEAMSWITCHER - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    So what you're saying is that Microsoft has trouble implementing even 1990's era technology? I see your point.
  • name99 - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    "now a days we have dual / tri/ quad monitor setup. works much much better."
    Nowadays? I used a setup of three 19" (CRT) monitors when I worked at Apple, starting from about 1992...

    Two primary use case for virtual desktops, at least in the case of OSX are:
    - laptops
    - HTPCs (where virtual desktops are perhaps not essential, but they come along for the ride when you full screen an app, and many people use multiple video viewing apps)

    In both these cases the whole POINT is that multiple hardware screens are not really a sensible option.
  • Gigaplex - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    "Windows 10's implementation as it exists today has jarring transitions with no ability to move windows between desktops or change the rearrange the desktops."

    It is hidden, but you can move windows between desktops.
  • inighthawki - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    I think it's also safe to say that this is a tech preview (i.e. a beta) so there's probably more left to do.
  • milkod2001 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    First slide on top has text: One product family, One platform and One Store with MS w10 logo(some MS exec has probably spent 5 min. designing that using Word and thought it' cool :)

    Will any x86 desktop app work on windows smartphone or tablet as slide indicates? Or at least all new apps from MS store will work 100% across all platforms?

    Overall Windows 10 looks very promising.I have to give MS team credit for bringing start button back(it only took them 2 years), beautiful tiles are still there with quick access to all trends, FB, Twitter is there as well, some nice pictures and lets not forget MS Store if you want to buy some fantastic App...
  • Gigaplex - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Desktop apps will not work on phones. Only WinRT ("Metro") apps work on all platforms.
  • name99 - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    " One product family, One platform and One Store"
    Microsoft's attitude to this is beyond retarded. On even numbered days they trump this "one, one, one" to the skies; on odd numbered days they assure us loudly that that is past, that now they care about the best UI and best code for every distinct platform.

    The way they are treating this bears all the marks of a company that doesn't have a clue what it's strategy REALLY is. Satya either can't make up his mind on this, or he HAS made up his mind, but he can't get half the company to go along with what he has said...
  • Xajel - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    The thing I'm missing is the way a Microsoft account works, It will use the email, password, the full name registered in the account... and I can't change these without affecting my MS account... I hate that and I like to use my nickname rather than my full name, and a different password than my MS account password.. not to mention I don't like to see the name/email in the c:\users\NAME
  • Gigaplex - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    To make the user directory use your nickname, create the account as local account first. Then attach the Microsoft account to it later.
  • Kracer - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Useless features everywhere, what it needs is some polish when go a bit deeper than just everyday use.

    They can't have the balls to take an idea and run with it. Windows 8's concept was great, Modern for phones and tablets, and traditional Desktop for Ultrabooks and above. The main problem was the interaction between them, which was not made more clear direct in Windows 10, just continue to blur the line and confuse the user where s/he is.

    N.B.:I'm not using the windows store if it means making a Microsoft Account.
  • darthrevan13 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    But you're using Play Store or App Store although they require an Google/Apple account?
  • simonpschmitt - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Just out of curiosity.
    How would you propose a store without a unique account system would work?
  • Gigaplex - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    You could have the account for the store without requiring using the same account as your local login. My steam account doesn't require linking to my system user account for example.
  • korben44 - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Couldn't you log in as a local user then use a MS account to sign into the store? I haven't tired it, but it is essentially what you're referring to.
  • andrewaggb - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    I log into my kid accounts and sign into the store with my account so they can use my purchases. Works fine.
  • TheSlamma - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    My problem with the store is enterprise support. My people log into our active directory domain not into an MS store. And I don't want to manage 3000 windows store accounts. They don't seem to get volume licensing and they were the kings of it from win7 and earlier
  • R3MF - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    "With Microsoft hosting the entire download and purchase of all WinRT apps"

    And with desktop apps now being hosted on the app-store, can I confirm just one thing:

    That we are (hopefully) not being herded into the position where windows will only run apps hosted on, installed from, and managed by, the app-store?
  • kyuu - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    There is no restriction to *only* loading apps from the app store, it's merely an option. Don't be absurd. Well, unless the IT department in charge of the device chooses to enable such a restriction, of course.
  • name99 - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    If they have any sense they will copy Apple (yet again, adding to the 90% of features that are currently Apple copies) and
    (a) warn when the user launches code that is unsigned
    (b) not allow unsigned code to run without special (not completely obvious) interaction by this user.

    This might do one bit more to help limit the spread of malware (especially the stuff that runs as non-obvious apps, like autorun apps on USB, or weird drivers, or stuff that gets downloaded from the net pretending to be a movie).
  • asmian - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    "they will copy Apple (yet again, adding to the 90% of features that are currently Apple copies)"

    No, you don't get away with that. You mean it's one of the 90% of features that Apple has stolen from others, then claimed to have invented, or fraudulently patented despite years of demonstrable prior art. Apple is the copier, not the innovator, and Jobs admitted it publicly. Some of us are old enough to remember the original Apple vs. MS spat over "look and feel" when Apple tried to prevent Windows from using a GUI at all, despite them having stolen the idea themselves from work done at Xerox Parc...
  • andrewaggb - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    I think you're trolling or you haven't used windows since xp. In my opinion at least, you get sufficient warnings for these activities.

    WinRT essentially has these restrictions.
  • DanNeely - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    "The Windows Store is going to be a big part of this, and if the rumors of desktop apps being integrated into the store is true, then the OOBE for Windows 10 will be amazing. All of your settings and apps will now follow you from device to device, with a single log in."

    Just offering desktop apps in the store isn't enough to do that. They also need to:

    1) Convince desktop app developers to offer their apps in the store.

    2) Allow paid apps originally bought outside of the store to be redistributed within it without requiring the purchase of a new copy.

    3) For apps with regular paid upgrades keep all the historic versions available for redownload if a user hasn't bought the upgrade.

    4) Find apps installed traditionally when a PC is upgraded and import them into the store system.

    5) Provide a scan app that works on Win7/8.x and will generate a Windows store app download list to jumpstart your new Windows 10 system.
  • kmmatney - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    How many Windows "Apps" do people normally buy? I buy games from Steam, but almost all of my Apps are freeware. I buy Apps for my phone,as sometimes they offer a better experience than a webpage, but on a desktop you can just use the browser instead of Apps.
  • Icehawk - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Please tell me W10 will stop asking me to "tap here" when I connect a Bitlocked drive to my desktop... which has no touchscreen. W7's implementation was much better, a normal popup window I could begin typing my password into.
  • mkozakewich - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    It's not a sharp difference between "Touch" and "Mouse and Keyboard". Any touch system can have mice and keyboards attached. The mouse and the keyboard are two separate control schemes, too, and each have to be able to work independently.

    In the first part, you go on at length about how Windows 8 failed from a "Mouse and Keyboard" view. I understand that it was weird to use a mouse before 8.1, but there honestly hasn't really been a change between keyboard use. The Windows key didn't disappear from all the keyboards, nor did it start working. The same commands would switch between windows and close windows. It was still as easy to select things.

    It would have been more succinct to say, "Windows 8 designed on-screen interactions for touch, to the detriment of the mouse."
  • mkozakewich - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Whoops, "nor did it stop working."
  • synoptic12 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Irrespective of the many view points on the Windows 10 features, the fact remains that the focal point is centered upon a universal value, (Icons) whereas no effort is being infused to use one's mind. The continuum can be considered to simplify the apps for the generation who can not comprehend, or think. Many believe that a network is comprised of magical symbols which really serve no purpose, just delving upon grade school functions. We're not getting smarter, we're moving into a dilemma of lacking any thought.
  • theuglyman0war - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    but so many devs can hope to get rich quick now that my gui looks like corporate web advertising. I wonder when the bottom falls out from app selling and App stores if the majority will act like they did not see it coming.
  • Imaginer - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I personally WANT to KEEP the Start Screen on my desktop systems.

    The All Apps area does need improvement, in zeroing in on the selected folders when zooming out (by CTRL mouse wheel). The folders do need to be differentiated by color boxes.

    I have absolutely no use of launching any application by desktop icons anymore, only using this area for scratch files I use.

    And I have no need for a limited Start Menu pinning, where on the Start Screen I can pin an "infinite" amount of tiles, with a quick reveal with the Start key or the Start button.

    Options. I know that it can be given. Much like there is backlash, I am giving my own if I do not keep my Start Screens on my pure desktop PCs. Otherwise, the rejoice of "return of desktop" is unwarranted, as FIle Explorer, Task Manager, Right Click power options, and Taskbar are all there to begin with.
  • Imaginer - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I really am not that interested in drop shadows, but it is a graphical draining feature I can turn off, as in my Tablet PC of a Surface Pro 2, most if not all the time I am running windows maximized. And on the desktop, most to all of my monitors run as close to maximized.

    I don't mind that flat look, it is superficial at this point, to appease the "prettiness" type of people.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    You can use the Start Screen instead of the Start Menu it's just a checkbox in the Start Menu properties. Once Continuum appears, it will be even easier to switch since you can likely manually invoke that feature.
  • zero2dash - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I've played around with it in a VM, and it's certainly better than 8/8.1 but I don't think it's any better than 7 and I'm happy with (and used to) 7. Even if 10 is a free upgrade for 7 users, I don't think I'd take it.

    Seems like they've moved things around a bit in 10 (that may have also been moved in 8/8.1 and are simply in the same spot in 10), and I don't like this "relearning" that they think I have the time or energy to do. If I'm going to relearn an OS, it's gonna be Ubuntu or Fedora.
  • Zingam - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    On my left - a laptop with Windows 8.1 and on my right - a laptop with Windows 7. Conclusion: Windows 8.1 is so much nicer than Windows 7 (Windows 8 was lacking but Windows 8.1 is superior). Nuff said!
  • Gunbuster - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Is DirectAccess in the preview or do they have it locked down to "Windows 10 Enterprise" or whatever they are going to call it?

    I'm convinced Cisco is making payments to keep DirectAccess out of the mainstream so their VPN device customers don't instantly evaporate.
  • wiyosaya - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    In my opinion, overall cost is what drives business to move to a new OS, not features. Many businesses had only recently upgraded from NT to 7 when 8 came out. M$ seems to expect that everyone, including the business world, will just lock-step into line and upgrade at M$' slightest whim.

    As I see it, even without the learning curve of the new UI in 8, upgrading, after just completing an upgrade to 7, would have been prohibitively expensive for many businesses. Many articles I have seen point to the learning curve of the 8 UI as the singular reason that the business world failed to adopt it. What evidence is there for this? I am willing to bet that the main reason was cost, not learning curve - which is not all that steep except, perhaps, for the less technically inclined.
  • Hairs_ - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    The biggest hurdle for businesses is app compatibility, even more so than hardware or training costs.

    Businesses are still running mission critical functions on 70's mainframe systems, because replacing them is simply too expensive / frightening / difficult.
  • prime2515103 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Can the live tiles in the start menu be disabled and/or replaced with the selections that are in the Win7 start menu?
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    You can unpin whatever you would like from the Start Menu, and you can pin anything you'd like including desktop apps.
  • Pork@III - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Now back and aero interface and become ... well. For excellent results, however, it is necessary to hide the "Metro" even aside. It is still more harm than help.
  • metayoshi - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    With regards to the Share feature on desktop, does the Windows Photo Viewer also have a share button? That would definitely be useful for sharing to Facebook or Twitter (or Instagram, if they ever implement a Windows app) instead of having to share from the Windows Explorer every time.
  • Brett Howse - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    The "Photos" app supports this. I would think it unlikely they would add the Share contract in to the old one but at this rate - who knows.
  • Chloiber - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    As a person who works in a small start up that uses a lot of Microsoft hardware and software, the new business features sound awesome. We are getting to a point where we need management systems but many existing ones are simply too expensive for only a handful of people and require (again) hardware, software and someone probably needs to invest several days or weeks to set things up correctly. So this really comes in handy and I'm looking forward to it!
    Regarding the server OSes, I think they did many things right with Windows Server 2012 R2, but there are still some things (usability wise) that need improvements.
  • Taurus229 - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I still say that Windows 7 is much more user friendly. Just look at where Microsoft has placed the shutdown, restart button. Common sense says that Microsoft did not put much thought into that change! Microsoft still has to make it as user friendly as Windows 7 to achieve acceptance.
  • Chloiber - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I have to agree on this one. I always used my keyboard with Windows 7 to shutdown/restart/standby my machines. Win -> ArrowRight -> (ArrowUp/Down) -> Enter. It was terrible in Windows 8 / Windows Server 2012 and got a bit better in 8.1 / 2012 R2. In Windows 10 it's basically the same as in 8.1...
  • inighthawki - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    Or, you know, make it customizable? Let the user drag and drop components onto their start menu however they see fit. Isn't that the entire goal - start is personal?
  • lilmoe - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I love the way windows snap right and left now. When you snap a window to the left, re-size it, and try to snap another to the right, the new window will snap filling all the space made available by re-sizing the first window. Cool.
    This is great when you're trying to snap 2 windows only. However (and I did write to Microsoft about it), when you're trying to snap 3 or more windows (columns of windows), it would be nice if the third window automatically snapped in the vacant space made by resizing any of the previous ones. Would be awesome, especially when you're trying to display several windows together since screens are really wide nowadays.
  • crabperson - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    I never understood why the app switcher mechanism in Windows 8 wasn't fused with the classic taskbar. It seems like there's a 'touch' taskbar you can pull up using a gesture, and a separate taskbar for windows on the desktop. It makes even less sense now that apps show up on both in 8.1, yet the Desktop is still an app on the touch version.
    Couldn't you just swipe from whatever side of the screen the taskbar is on to see the app previews (or even the existing aero previews), and keep swiping to pull the app to the foreground, whether its a fullscreen touch app or a standard application window? Then the charms and menu gestures can be moved to whatever sides of the screen that are free, for the 5% of people that move the taskbar around.
  • stephenbrooks - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    Glad I'm not the only one who wondered why they weren't more unified.

    While we're unifying things, why not have an option for the Win8-style Start screen to *be* your desktop? It basically replaces "putting a load of application shortcuts on your desktop" anyway.
  • Zingam - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    What an ugly Start menu! The old fashioned Start Menu was always a very poorly designed and retarded way to access your applications and now they've managed to do it even worse!!! I'd rather have the Windows 8.1 Start Screen.
  • Mikemk - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    -12 degrees? That's cold
  • Brett Howse - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Everything is relative :) I'd say anything below -20°C is uncomfortable, and -30° to -40° is cold. After -40° it's insane.
  • JimmiG - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    With Start8 I could probably tolerate Windows 8.1. However the OS itself doesn't really offer anything for me over Windows 7. Sure there are a few overlooked but neat new features in Explorer and I might even gain 0.3 FPS in some game due to efficiency improvements, but that's hardly worth the cost or even the time spent for upgrading.

    Windows 10 would have to bring some serious improvements in addition to not blowing a 27" full-screen launcher into my face every time I want to launch Notepad or Calc.
  • ZenKiyoshi - Thursday, November 13, 2014 - link

    How about display scaling?
  • atlantico - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    The return of the desktop??? The desktop was *never* gone. Idiots.
  • loki1725 - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    What do you use your computer for? As an engineer, nearly every piece of software I use was purchased. I paid just over $8,000 to renew the license on my Matlab software + toolboxes this morning. Between that and 3D CAD tools, you have 80% or more of my daily computer use. The rest is Office, and I'll admit I haven't used 365 much as I've always had MS Office Pro. Maybe that could be taken over. But there is still a huge need for paid 'apps' on the desktop, especially in the enterprise.
  • croc - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Personally, I'd be happy with Win 10 just as it is (build 9879). Obviously there are some bumps in the road, and some things have not been thought through, but MS does seem to have listened to the sound of their customer base disappearing... (Do disappearing customers REALLY make a sound?) Win 10 is indeed built to be a desktop OS for people that have desktops, and is certainly touch capable for those that have touch interface needs. Or, that seems to be what I've read in the forums anyway, about the touchy crowd.

    If I were still working, I'd be crying loudly for some changes to the multiple desktop model, but plenty of people are also pointing out the issues with that model as it stands. I am sure that it will become more like the CDE versions that many Unix types have come to know and love.

    Some form of aero-ing would be nice, but that is a matter of preference for some. I can live without it, it is easy enough to see which window has 'focus'.

    I cannot speak to the real issues, the networking, group policy stuff etc., so I won't. But the memory model! What a joy! This OS tosses ram around like the Harlem Globetrotters on a VERY good day! As a for-instance, a game I run is Skyrim. My version is heavily modded, and in a script intensive kind of way. Load screen times are down about half just by running in Win 10 vs. Win 7. Another ram-intensive application I use a lot is 3DS Max. Re-rendering a model now takes about a third the time. I'd hate to see the performance of something like ACAD or 3DS Max written exclusively to take advantage of Win 10's memory modeling...
  • SirPerro - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    There is no way Adobe and other huge software makers are going to pay Microsoft to publish the software on their store. The only chance Microsoft has is making the distribution free if they want to succeed.

    Otherwise it's just the same story all over again: Install windows 8.1, do not sign-up for Microsoft account, use the PC as you've always done. That's my install workflow. That will be probably my install workflow for Win 10.
  • asmian - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    How easy is it to remove ALL the MS-account-related features, though? Meaning not just disable, but REMOVE.

    I'll never use a paid app store, or any MS email service, or the cloud in any form. I don't need weather widgets or photo editing tools that are toys compared to proper heavyweight apps I've paid for. I don't want IE or Bing search as I have better alternatives, and if I had to use calc or wordpad or other utilities I don't have free alternatives for I'd probably copy the .EXE files from Win7... So can I strip all that useless crap out and have a smaller, totally Metro app-free, non-MS-account system? That's what I need to know before I give up Win7.
  • valnar - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    I agree! And anyone who uses OneDrive without Boxcryptor is just asking for trouble. I would never use Microsoft's cloud service.
  • Sabresiberian - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Excellent article Brett. It is very refreshing to read something about the Windows OS (or anything for that matter) that doesn't come from a negative or positive personal position as much as it comes from a realistic one.
  • jmarchel - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    There is one thing about Windows store (WinRT environment) that makes it unacceptable for me. It has no mechanism for average user for sideloading. Only corporations with domains are allowed to do so. I selected Windows in the past not only because it was popular but also because it was open. With WinRT being closed forcing developer to get Microsoft license and only allowing apps through the store I will not use this interface nor I will never write an application for it.
  • ZenKiyoshi - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    How about display scaling?
  • Brett Howse - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    So far I do not see any changes in regards to scaling over what was in 8.1. I was hoping for an option to force app scaling but nothing yet.
  • kasakka - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    I truly hope MS adds the polish Win10 needs before it gets released. Still too many legacy icons, tools that have those pesky non-resizable small list boxes (similar to the shit Nvidia Control Panel has) or look dating back to Win95. Likewise I hope they make notification center more aesthetically pleasing.

    You'd think MS would have the resources to employ an army of graphic artists to upgrade the stock icon libraries and another one to look over the many small usability issues that were plain and apparent even in the first preview.
  • jabber - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Dear MS can we please finally slip EMET as standard into Windows 10 and actually enable it by default.

    It's time folks were driven away from their 2003 shareware anyway.

    Pointless adding in security if you switch it all off by default.
  • justausername - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    Anyone know if Windows Server will get similar updates and changes?
  • Brett Howse - Friday, November 14, 2014 - link

    I have not had a chance to check out server yet, but this is the preview: http://blogs.technet.com/b/server-cloud/archive/20...
  • phantom505 - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    Wow, "despite our good review on this site.." I like this site, have since 1998ish. HOWEVER, who the hell are you to make such a strange comment like "people did not want to bother learning." You can kiss me where the sun rarely shines.

    The interface is garbage. The search was garbage. Even 8.1 didn't really fix it sufficiently.

    How about you respect your readers a little more, eh?
  • SlyNine - Monday, November 24, 2014 - link

    You act like their not allowed to disagree. They were not talking about you.why you choose to feel butt hurt is a mystery.

    In my case it's exactly right. it was an interface I had no desire to learn when it offered no real advantages.
  • Whiznot - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    Microsoft is losing me by including the useless store and by removing Windows Media Center. WMC is the only reason I'm not running Linux on my HTPC.
  • Zingam - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    "Microsoft has already had to deal with people being stuck on Windows XP, and they must be wanting to avoid that with Windows 7."

    Hahaha, Microsoft, maybe you won't price it in $$$ range then!!! Windows costs more than many people would pay for hardware. :)
  • Zingam - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    So they seem to have finally removed that useless border around the windows!!! That's something I like!!!
  • Zingam - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    I also like the gesture features with Windows 8. Dropping would be a wrong step but they do need a tweaking and an improvement, so that they feel confortable with the mouse!
  • SinceWin3.1 - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    using 8.1 on newly built desktop. no problems at all. due to a botched office install i had to put new operating system on my laptop. choice: 8.1. problems galore! wifi issues, which now seem to work after connecting multiple times to hot spots i usually use. install borked the first time and now updates won't update. win7 on the 2 year old laptop never had a single issue. i think the problem for MS is that Win 10 seems destined for power users in general. i really think there should be a WinLite 10 that works and doesn't have so many features that ultimately compromise the system and hardly anyone will use. i've even had horrid install issues with office on two computers in the last month. can't anything work anymore???
  • Zingam - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    An advice from another User of Windows since 3.1 :D
    Laptops should never be upgraded to a newer OS. Just use the one that came was pre-installed on it, the one that they were certified for. Since I use laptops exclusively for 10 years now (I haven't bought/built a desktop since 2000), I can't even use Linux, because of that. Once I installed XP on a laptop from CD that I used to intall Windows on other PCs but I got all kinds of problems on the laptop. Then I reinstalled using the installation disk that came with the laptop - no problems at all.
  • SinceWin3.1 - Sunday, November 16, 2014 - link

    I believe you're right! My first choice was to use the restore disks, but they wouldn't work. the error I received was that the disks were not made for this computer. I think this is due to switching out the hdd for an ssd. also, when I cloned the hdd to the ssd, I lost the recovery partition. I needed to use the computer the next day, hence the win 8.1 upgrade. If problems persist, I will get the win 7 restore disks from Asus! First laptop. Live and learn! lol
  • valnar - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    I've had no problems doing this, so long as it's just one OS newer. I've put Win7 on Vista Thinkpads without an issue. Lenovo supplies all the drivers. Sure, it may take a few hours/days to get it all, but I've never had an issue.
  • MushroomBomb - Saturday, November 15, 2014 - link

    "Return of the desktop..."

    I've used Windows 8 and 8.1 pretty much since release and have had the desktop and haven't spent a single second in the "Metro UI". Picked it up for $25 on sale.
  • valnar - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    I don't quite understand the Metro app thing on a desktop. It's a regression in every way. Single app, full screen, doesn't run in the background, etc. Yes, I know Apple does this with iOS but it works for a small device, small screen, and limited memory. On a desktop computer, running an app the way Microsoft designed Metro harkens it back to DOS days. It's called Windows, not Window. Glad they are finally fixing some of that in Windows 10.
  • TinHat - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    +1
  • Ubercake - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    Seems like Windows 10 is turning out to be everything Windows 8 was meant to be (ie Unified desktop) while incorporating customer feedback. Looks pretty good.
  • Kutark - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    Really wish they would at least give the option of enabling aero again. I know in the end its a relatively minor quibble, but i can't express in words how much i hate the stupid pastel themed title bars/windows, etc.
  • Kutark - Monday, November 17, 2014 - link

    I should also mention, while win10 looks like a nice step in the right direction, i still think they're going to get the shaft with gamers when steamos comes out (depending on developer support of course). I can honestly say that i've not once, literally not once, had a need or ever clicked, used, or looked at the stupid touch interface (whatever they call it) in months of using windows 8.1. I just need a desktop where i can put icons, a web browser, etc. I don't need "apps" ala a smartphone. If i do, i'll use my smartphone/tablet. Desktops are primarily for "serious business" and all this crap does is get in the way of your ability to efficiently use the system.

    That being said all the backend stuff in windows 8.1 is great. I will say it works well.
  • Che - Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - link

    I am so in agreement with the above. It is killing me to give up aero. Everytime I see these pics of windows 10, or use windows 8/8.1 it just visually hurts.
  • jrs77 - Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - link

    I don't want something fancy for touch-screens and all these widgets, apps, etc.

    I'm using Windows only on my workstation and for that I need an OS that works with keyboard and mouse first and foremost.

    Microsoft should'nt try to integrate all the devices but simply have one OS for mobile devices and one for dektop workstations.
  • R. Hunt - Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - link

    This is still FrankensteinOS, and "Modern" apps look and feel like they were running on a mobile emulator rather than actual desktop applications. Sorry, not impressed, not really seeing how this is any different from Windows 8 or what the hype is all about. All I see is Microsoft still desperately trying to push Metro, their App Store, and associated services on desktop users.
  • Techstedt - Tuesday, November 18, 2014 - link

    "a lot"
  • JackMenendez - Wednesday, November 19, 2014 - link

    I don't know why it is so hard to understand Windows 8.x failure. There are different kinds of input for navigation and feedback to that input. The design of the UI should be optimum for the kind of input used. If you have a touch screen then a touch screen UI is probably what you are looking for; Windows 8.1 great. If you don't have a touch screen, then a mouse and/or keyboard input UI is what you are looking for; Windows 7 great. When Microsoft put a touch screen UI on a system with only mouse and keyboard input then it is not optimum; it is not what people want. Microsoft went one step further, they took away a UI optimized for mouse and keyboard and replaced it with a UI optimized for touch when most computers don't have touch. This move is called shooting the foot off.

    Someday, we will have a computer that understands speech so well that we won't need a navigation input. Kind of like the fictional computers on Star Trek. Will we put a touch UI on these? Will it be

    "Computer, touch the start button then touch the sensors button, then touch the scan enemy ship button"

    Or will it be

    "Computer, Scan the enemy ship"?

    One kind of UI for all things represents complete ignorance of how people use computers. Stack Exchange lists VIM as one of the most popular IDE's for writing code; for C++ VIM is as popular as Visual Studio. VIM, think about it. For some things touch and mouse are not as good as something developed in the early 1970's but Microsoft does not seem to get that.
  • Hixbot - Friday, November 21, 2014 - link

    It's nice to see the desktop back, honestly I have had no problem with Windows 8.1 with classic shells installed it's basically Windows 7 without aero.

    My biggest gripe is this push to a Windows store.
    Pushing WinRT and Windows store on use makes me feel like MS is just herding us into a gift shop at the end of a lousy theme park. I don't want PC devs to use the Windows store, I don't want MS to scrape money of the top of the business. I don't want another software distribution model being shoved down my throat. I like windows over android and ios because it runs win32 code. I like that coding for PC has been typically wide open for the past 35 years or so.
    Windows had a huge part in that. I've always preferred Windows over Linux simply for the enormous, almost endless supply of windows binaries of all types, especially games. MS is pushing me away, and I might just use Linux and never buy a Windows computer again. Honestly MS must really envy Apple and Google creating app stores that bring them revenue and market power. I don't want a store full of mostly crappy $1 apps for my PC. I like my PC the way it is, just improve things like UI, kernel, security, performance, features, etc etc but enough with the store. If I want software, I'll do it the old fashioned way and find it on the internet and buy it from the developers on their website, or find open-source and add free software from vibrant developer communities, or I'll even go back to buying 5.25 floppies just don't point me at another dang app store.
  • piasabird - Saturday, November 22, 2014 - link

    People just want a desktop computer to work like a desktop computer. Microsoft does not get this simple statement. Their problem is they don't understand desktop customers. One size fits all is not a good fit.
  • piasabird - Saturday, November 22, 2014 - link

    Maybe Microsoft is purposely sabotaging computers to get people to replace them?
  • piasabird - Saturday, November 22, 2014 - link

    A few days ago my Vista computer would no longer log in. I tried using the built in administrator account to fix it but after logging in all of the updates were gone and I was back to IE 9. the stupid thing would not even recognize it had networking and the services were turned off. That was a waste of time. It all started when I went downstairs and my computer was stuck at the Login Screen similar to what it might do after updating from windows update.
  • IBM650 - Sunday, November 23, 2014 - link

    Speaking of upgrading an app I used to use Azul on my IPAD, I allowed it to upgrade. now I cannot play AC3 movies, oh we removed it since Adobe said we needed to pay for some code. I bought the app and now it is unusable,
  • Aspire AV - Sunday, November 23, 2014 - link

    really it looks like a descent thing, microsoft has tried to solve the interface issue quite well by combining the features of Win 7 and Win 8 to make it more user friendly for the desktop users,, it looks a new avatar of Win 8 which is much more sustainable for the Win 7 users to switch to a new Win OS. Thats what Windows is all about. hope it bangs in the market as the Win 7. looking forward to this thing.
  • Ashwij - Monday, November 24, 2014 - link

    I am using this now on my laptop and I must say I am pleasantly surprised ! I did like the Windows 8.1 a little bit (I am a Linux user on my PC for over 6 years now) and desired to rest the version. Although the website says its a developer preview and should not be used on your main PC, it is very stable. Considering this is not even Beta( Build 9841).

    The updates are relatively less (for my 8.1 PC i get close to 500Mb updates a week), just about 12 Mb so far in a week. No crashes.

    Only issues observed - Very Old games (circa Unreal Tournament 1999) do not run even in backward compatibility mode with hardware rendering. And Google Dive sync does not work
  • Rockfella.Killswitch - Thursday, November 27, 2014 - link

    I am using the technical preview since two weeks or so. Love it to the core. Using it with ATI R7 240 gpu, 4GB corsair DDR3 ram. No issues whatsoever. Butter smooth. No major issues with drivers either. XBMC Gotham and other players run just fine. Dual display set-up also running great! MS has a winner.
  • Rockfella.Killswitch - Thursday, November 27, 2014 - link

    Been using it since two weeks. MS has a winner. Love it to the core.
  • Lerianis - Friday, November 28, 2014 - link

    And people like myself will reiterate: Windows 8 is viewed in a positive light by the majority of non-techies who have tried it. I have installed it on all but ONE of my machines and if Microsoft included Windows Media Center in Windows 8 without having to get the Professional version, I would have switched that one over as well.
  • boe - Sunday, November 30, 2014 - link

    Now if MS could only program all the stuff back into their servers that they expect you to type with powershell I'll be thrilled. When is the last time someone here went to a command prompt and typed dir or del or ren? GUI is what made computers popular with normal people you f'n suspender wearing, Linux wannabes!
  • partofthepuzzle - Saturday, December 6, 2014 - link

    Most of the slated changes for Windows 10 seem like significant improvements tome and I'm relatively optimistic about the possibilities of moving the 200+ PC users to it (after the initial bugs, etc. have been shaken out). My biggest reservation is forcing access to WinRT apps through the Windows Store. I realize there are options for side loading but in my shop ( development house) eliminating the ability for a user to freely install an app when they choose could be a deal breaker.

    Beyond my company specific needs, for the home users, I can also the Windows Store only availability of WinRT apps being a major turn off and something that could significantly reduce the interest in WinRT apps for the general public.
  • twtech - Thursday, December 11, 2014 - link

    Windows 8 apologists usually end up talking about how it's "not that bad", and that it's ultimately functional after a long learning curve.

    Frankly, if Windows 7 didn't exist, most of us probably would be using Windows 8. However, Windows 7 does exist, and it's just as functional as Windows 8, but with a more desktop-user-friendly UI.

    So why would a Windows 7 user want to switch to Windows 8? If what it boils down is that 8 is a bigger number than 7, that's not a compelling argument. If I'm "upgrading" it should be to a better product, not one that is "only a little bit worse after you get used to it."
  • JonnyDough - Friday, January 16, 2015 - link

    "As an attempt to keep malware at bay, Windows 10 can only allow trusted applications to be run on it. That trust can come from Microsoft, or from OEMs and organizations. A company can sign apps themselves if they wish, choose apps signed by particular software vendors, apps from the Windows Store, or all of the above."

    Best feature by far. This could be a major kick in the pants for malware.
  • geekfool - Wednesday, July 1, 2015 - link

    i tried beta and don like the Windows 10 Edge browser... it is is broken

    this was previously known by the codename Project Spartan.

    With Edge you can’t save a web page as a web archive (which combines all the text, graphics and layout into a single MSHTML file). And you can’t pin sites to the Windows 10 taskbar, as you could with IE.

    it dosnt even do justice to some html 5 coded sites

    Thats my 2cents anyway
    Jeff frm http://www.forgotcomputerpassword.com/

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